Monark vs. Bosio nozzles - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

airedale2 · #46 02-07-2009, 09:13 AM

Hello fellow grease monkeys. I wanted to give another update on the Monark nozzles installed in my 300d. I now have a little over 21,000 miles on the set and they still drive wonderfully. They seem to have smoothed out more and settled in, but no loss in performance. I am very pleased with them. I think one of the nicer things is that there is no pilot injection hole to clog up as on the bosios. Not saying that Bosio's are bad, ive read they have very good quality. I just like simple and basic, and these fit the bill. Anyone with questions, feel free to ask.

Bob Albrecht · #47 04-30-2009, 01:40 AM

After installing and test-driving my 1991 350SD with new Monark nozzles I can tell you they are fantastic. I have had the car since it had 50,000 miles on it and now it has 105,000 miles and it has never run this well. I bought the cool pop tester from Mercedes Source and balanced the injectors myself with the provided shims.

There is no more smoke even with my foot to the floor, the idle is very smooth, and she has a lot more power. On the freeway at 85mph up a mountain pass (I64@Afton VA) just now I could have easily accelerated to 100.

I think that some of the lower-quality 100% biodiesel I used may have coked-up the old injectors and I doubt if the injectors were ever balanced as well as they are now.

My friends with MB diesels are neglecting their injectors. Some of them run B100, and some SVO. The manual I have says that with SVO you might need to clean your injectors every 12K miles.

argus445 · #48 04-30-2009, 10:29 AM

Having ran both they're both high quality and would recommend each of them. Having said that i like monarch they're cheaper.

LuckyEddie · #49 04-30-2009, 10:57 AM

I like my Monarch nozzles and C Sean Watts is a great fellow to deal with.

Robert

Diesel911 · #50 04-30-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Albrecht

After installing and test-driving my 1991 350SD with new Monark nozzles I can tell you they are fantastic. I have had the car since it had 50,000 miles on it and now it has 105,000 miles and it has never run this well. I bought the cool pop tester from Mercedes Source and balanced the injectors myself with the provided shims.

There is no more smoke even with my foot to the floor, the idle is very smooth, and she has a lot more power. On the freeway at 85mph up a mountain pass (I64@Afton VA) just now I could have easily accelerated to 100.

I think that some of the lower-quality 100% biodiesel I used may have coked-up the old injectors and I doubt if the injectors were ever balanced as well as they are now.

My friends with MB diesels are neglecting their injectors. Some of them run B100, and some SVO. The manual I have says that with SVO you might need to clean your injectors every 12K miles.

How did the Manual say to clean the Spray Nozzles; with a chemical Purge or taking apart the Nozzles and Physical Cleaning?

Bob Albrecht · #51 04-30-2009, 11:10 AM

I don't think it is possible to sufficiently clean the injectors with purge alone. I have tried it. You get to a point where the purge doesn't fix the problem. If you just let it go, and go, and go, your engine will shake itself to pieces at idle.

The manual suggests that you should remove the injectors and physically clean them every 12K miles if you want performance continuity with SVO. Mercedes Source sells a nice cleaning kit called TOP BRASS. I will get it when I need it.

After seeing my injectors after 50K miles of B100, much of it that had some glycerides in it, I can see why SVO would kill injectors after 12K miles. Not a bad trade-off considering the cost savings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

How did the Manual say to clean the Spray Nozzles; with a chemical Purge or taking apart the Nozzles and Physical Cleaning?

oldsinner111 · #52 04-30-2009, 02:42 PM

Perfect for veggie,and awesome power on diesel.

Diesel911 · #53 04-30-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Albrecht

I don't think it is possible to sufficiently clean the injectors with purge alone. I have tried it. You get to a point where the purge doesn't fix the problem. If you just let it go, and go, and go, your engine will shake itself to pieces at idle.

The manual suggests that you should remove the injectors and physically clean them every 12K miles if you want performance continuity with SVO. Mercedes Source sells a nice cleaning kit called TOP BRASS. I will get it when I need it.

After seeing my injectors after 50K miles of B100, much of it that had some glycerides in it, I can see why SVO would kill injectors after 12K miles. Not a bad trade-off considering the cost savings.

I don't know if it is EPA legal to use now but back in the late 70s where I worked we used Carburator Dip to clean the Injectors and Turbo Charger parts it. It softens Carbon.

We also had an Ultrasonic Cleaning Tank but we used it to clean Direct Injcetion type Spray Nozzles that had plugged Nozzle holes.

The only company that I know of that provided any sort of scraper type cleaning tools was RoosaMaster (Standyne); for their Pencil Nozzles as the bodies of the Nozzles had a coating that would come off if you soaked it in cleaner.

In short the Scraper tools might work to fix an Injector 1 out of 100 Injectors. Not worth the Labor to do.

You might ask some of the Members that are using the same Fuel and have Harbor Freight Ultrasonic Cleaning Tanks if this is not a better option than the Mercedes Source Scrapers. Also the Tank can be use to clean other things.

vitop · #54 05-03-2009, 10:16 AM

So, if timing has changed, how do you time it properly? I've got an AB light and set it to 13 ATDC. How do you actually know when the pump is opening the injector to set it right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Everybody has to make their own decisions on that; I say yes it is clearly best to have them pop tested when replacing the Spray Nozzle (and also to lap the internal precision surfaces before assembly).
Maybe I can explain it a little better.
There are a couple of things that happen as injectors are used. 1- The Pintel seating area in the spray nozzle wears out and they start to dribble raw/un-atomized fuel before their set pop/opening pressure is reached. 2- The tension in the spring inside of the injectors tends to weaken with use and when tested the pop/opening pressure is after many years of use lower than spec and they are not balanced between the set of injectors.
If you know the seat in the injector Spray Nozzle the is no good (you test for this on the pop tester). You will get improvement just by changing the Spray Nozzle (Diesel Giant has a how to do; do one nozzle at a time to keep the parts together for that nozzle). But the dimensions of the new Spray Nozzle may not be the same as the old one (especially Monark vs. Bosch) and this will change the tension on the spring in the injector. Meaning that the Pop/opening pressure of the nozzle will change and they will not be balanced between the other injectors (your injectors all could have different pop pressures; maybe out of spec; no way to tell without pop testing).
The pop/opening pressure of the nozzle also has an effect on your injection timing. Lower pressure injects the fuel sooner than a higher pressure.

Depending on my fanancial situation at the time I could see myself only changing the Spray Nozzle with out pop testing if my car was running poorly.
In my case when I bought a diesel car (Volvo) in 1992 I knew the injectors neededrebuilding and I bought a cheap ($150)Chinese Pop Tester right from the start. I figured a good part of the purchasecost of the pop tester would would be saved by not having to have 6 injectors rebuilt in a shop.

vitop · #55 05-03-2009, 10:21 AM

I haven't had as much luck getting hold of C Sean Watts as some of you have. I have not tried through this forum, but he replied to my first email and nothing on my second and third. I was just trying to get pricing. Maybe this forum is the answer. We'll see...

::matthew · #56 05-03-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitop

I haven't had as much luck getting hold of C Sean Watts as some of you have. I have not tried through this forum, but he replied to my first email and nothing on my second and third. I was just trying to get pricing. Maybe this forum is the answer. We'll see...

I'd try a PM. Ask him to call, perhaps.

1985300d · #57 05-03-2009, 11:11 AM

i say its a fluke or hes mad busy, try PM tho

prices are within range

Diesel911 · #58 05-03-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitop

So, if timing has changed, how do you time it properly? I've got an AB light and set it to 13 ATDC. How do you actually know when the pump is opening the injector to set it right?

I am not sure I understand the above comment.

"So, if timing has changed, how do you time it properly? I've got an AB light and set it to 13 ATDC."
I have not used the AB light or ever completely read the instructions. However, if you follow the FSM instructions your timing should be correct.

If the timing is not correct you have to loosen all of the IP mounting bolts and I also recommend loosening the Hard Line Nuts at both ends (so you can rotate the pump easily) and rotate the IP and recheck it.
If you have a newer IP that has a screw to rotate the IP follow the FSM directrections.

"How do you actually know when the pump is opening the injector to set it right?"
If the Injector opening pressures and the IP Begin Injection/Timing are both with in specs ignition should happen when it is supposed to.

It is sort of a prediction that if the Injectors are set within in a certain Opening/Pop Pressure range and the IP begin Injection is set with in the specified range of degrees that Ignition will occur at the proper time.

I believe the AB Light uses a spot on the IP Camshaft to trigger the Light and because that spot is not in the same place as the begin Injection of #1 if you used the Drip Method the Light triggers and a differnt degree mark. Mercedes has calculated which degree/s that is and gives you a different degree spec to compensate for that.

C Sean Watts · #59 05-03-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitop

I haven't had as much luck getting hold of C Sean Watts as some of you have. I have not tried through this forum, but he replied to my first email and nothing on my second and third. I was just trying to get pricing. Maybe this forum is the answer. We'll see...

Where did you send the 2nd and 3rd email?