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#31
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Playing "plenty of taxes" is not enough by any standards, you need to pay ALL the required taxes.
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#32
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"Diesel demonstrated his engine at the Exhibition Fair in Paris, France in 1898. This engine stood as an example of Diesel's vision because it was fueled by peanut oil - the "original" biodiesel. He thought that the utilization of a biomass fuel was the real future of his engine. He hoped that it would provide a way for the smaller industries, farmers, and "commonfolk" a means of competing with the monopolizing industries, which controlled all energy production at that time, as well as serve as an alternative for the inefficient fuel consumption of the steam engine. As a result of Diesel's vision, compression ignited engines were powered by a biomass fuel, vegetable oil, until the 1920's and are being powered again, today, by biodiesel."
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99 ML320 94 SL600 92 SL500 95 E320 Cabriolet 87 560SEC 86 300SDL Grease Car 80 380SLC Euro 13 Fiat Abarth 02 Maserati Spyder Cambiocorsa 00 BMW Z3 90 Rolls Royce Silver Spur 80 Ferrari 308 GTSI 88 Jaguar XJS12 H&E Edition 99 Land Rover Discovery |
#33
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Point out anything that says Mercedes designed the original engine or Dr. Rodolph Diesel assisted in the design of Mercedes' engines. You can't? That is because Mercedes wholly designed and built their diesel engines and made them to use petroleum Diesel fuel, not vegetable oil. Read your car's owners manual or service manual and you will see nothing mentioning vegetable oil.
Last edited by ForcedInduction; 12-25-2007 at 11:16 AM. |
#34
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99 ML320 94 SL600 92 SL500 95 E320 Cabriolet 87 560SEC 86 300SDL Grease Car 80 380SLC Euro 13 Fiat Abarth 02 Maserati Spyder Cambiocorsa 00 BMW Z3 90 Rolls Royce Silver Spur 80 Ferrari 308 GTSI 88 Jaguar XJS12 H&E Edition 99 Land Rover Discovery |
#35
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They are based on the idea that a precisely metered and accurately timed fuel injection into a highly compressed (heated) space will auto ignite. The only thing Mercedes' engines have in common is his idea and a reciprocating piston. They are very different in every other aspect. Just because Dr. Diesel made his engine to run on VO does not mean that ALL diesels can or should. Last edited by ForcedInduction; 12-25-2007 at 12:16 PM. |
#36
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Forced, I see your point (although Im still wondering how high you bought your Exxon-Mobile stock). However, it is my contention that the engine runs BETTER on WVO (properly filtered, dewatered, and dispensed to the IP using a reputable 2 tank kit like Frybrids).
You've nay-sayed this to the point Im about ready to tear apart my motor at 267k miles and measure the fits, clearances, and compression. But you would prob still site the owners manual to me if I did. Quote:
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Paul Benz-less I need an SDL ! |
#37
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I guess it depends what you mean by "better." You are running a fuel with less energy content and a slower combustion speed, in effect you are running with you injection timing retarded. My guess is that the engine is quieter at idle and has less top end power. I can accomplish the same thing by adjusting my IP timing, and I suspect you could get yours running closer to normal by advancing you IP timing. It is possible that running a "de-tuned" engine will reduce wear and tear (aside from potential coking, injector, IP issues), it might be an interesting experiment (for someone else's engine).
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#38
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Here's what I mean by "better" :
1. I dont pay some terrorist supporting country $3.30 for every gallon I use (or any denomination thereof). In fact, I don't pay them squat. This benefit is immeasurable, unless you tend to support terrorist-friendly countries. 2. The performance is equivalent to that of diesel, even without tuning the IP for it (which is easily done). By equivalent, I mean it will run ~120 mph on veg oil and accelerate from 0-60 mph in 10-12 sec. The consumption averages about 19-20 mpg on veg oil. I will, however, look into the road taxes issue. My goal isnt to skirt my fair share of state taxes. Its only to quit funding terrorist friendly countries with unnecessary fuel purchases. Unfortunately, they are intertwined.
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Paul Benz-less I need an SDL ! |
#39
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OK. Personally, I don't care if I'm supporting a "terrorist supporting country" (like canada, maybe) by buying their oil; if you think you're accomplishing something or making a statement, have a ball.
However, unless your "fuel" has the same (or better) heating value and density as #2 diesel fuel, it is unlikely that you are capable of "equivalent" performance. These engines are limited by the amount of fuel delivered, there are only so many BTUs availably in each gallon, and the maximum delivery rate is limited by the IP. Unfortunately, politics don't change the laws of thermodynamics. If you are getting acceptable performance, I guess that's good enough. I'm glad to hear that you are planning to pay appropriate road taxes. |
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Fads.
You act as if America is not a terrorist country. (That is a topic better left for OD). |
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The performance is equivalent, but I think it uses a bit more veg oil than diesel. For instance, on diesel I can get about 20-23 mpg. On veg I get about 19-20 mpg. Im not racing this thing, but I do drive 80-85 mph in Atlanta traffic. I honestly cant tell a power difference, although there must be a very slight difference as veg oil has about 90% of the stored energy as dino. A small sacrifice to be able to kick Chavez in the nuts, for sure (sorry if you guys idolize him)
Tell the guy at Exxon I said "Hi" next time
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Paul Benz-less I need an SDL ! |
#42
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So that's how a Mercedes diesel engine works. And that differs from Diesel's original design, how?
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1995 E300 200k 1981 300GD unknown km |
#43
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Sorry, I'm just not interested. I don't do politics.
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#44
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Extra credit: If not, what cycle does it actually use? Extra, extra credit: What's the difference between these two designs? These engines have about in common with the original diesel engine as a 777 has with the Wright brothers aircraft. |
#45
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From what I can gather, it has to do with the very slow operating speeds of the early engines (around 100 RPM) vs. the high speeds of modern engines. The cycling of the piston happens much faster now, meaning that some of the fuel is burned near TDC but the rest has to burn after the power stroke is already underway. I take it you are an engineer, to delve that far into diesel engine theory of operation. I've never studied thermodynamics, so I have to admit this stuff is mostly lost on me, although I find it mildly interesting. Anyway, we're getting off on a tangent. Agreed, modern diesel engines (even a 617, if we can still call that "modern") operate somewhat differently than the earliest designs. But my point is, I don't see how it automatically follows that a 617 cannot or should not be operated on VO, based on engineering principles. For the record, I have never put anything but pump diesel in any of my diesel vehicles.
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1995 E300 200k 1981 300GD unknown km |
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