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  #121  
Old 01-01-2008, 03:15 PM
a2t a2t is offline
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
I have read that "attitude" on this forum. There have been more than one posts where folks have calculated their fuel savings from WVO and made the case that the fuel savings exceeds the value of the car. I'm not saying everyone has that attitude, but you can't claim it doesn't exist. Some WVO users legitimately think it's OK for their cars, personally I think they are misguided.

Agreed. Ive seen some pretty scary WVO conversions, and its a shame. I drive my wife and kids in this thing, so I dont take that approach.

Ive also met a guy here who runs #2 and has decided to quit changing the engine oil so I guess morons abound...

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  #122  
Old 01-01-2008, 05:02 PM
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Wow, with a thread this long I figure I could throw in my 2 cents with some you passionate and opinionated people.

To repeat a little of Mr. Induction's comments, biodiesel and any type of vegetable oil are not the same. They are chemically different and both different from petrol diesel beyond viscosity. Some are good, particulate matter and SO2, some are not so good, such as increased smog ozone causing NOx.

The vast majority of bio here and around the world is made from virgin soy oil and palm oil. As someone who started and runs a local bio/veg oil co-op and who know several larger producers, it costs more and is harder to use wvo commercially.

The cost to commercialize and certify bio was in the millions. The cost This guy alone got a fortune to do studies. Bio producers just rent those credentials from NBB.

I recently got my 300SDL and have much to learn about working on MB diesels but I'm looking forward to running B100 this spring. I fully support those who are doing something to improve our social/political/environmental situation by converting to run veg oil but making blanket statements and outright fallacies are doing everyone a disservice.
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  #123  
Old 01-01-2008, 05:47 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by a2t View Post
Ive also met a guy here who runs #2 and has decided to quit changing the engine oil so I guess morons abound...
Don't remind me.
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  #124  
Old 01-01-2008, 07:28 PM
a2t a2t is offline
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Incorrect. Biodiesel is NOT WVO and is more often than not made from raw materials. The oil goes through a process called transesterification that changes it's chemical makeup and removes glycerin.

Nobody has ever claimed that it can "trash the engine" unless there are mistakes made.

I suggest you do some more research.
I never said Biodiesel is the same as WVO. I said the major difference is viscosity.

The reason for removing the glycerides thru transesterification is to reduce the viscosity.

But adding heat ALSO reduces viscosity. So you see, there is more than 1 way to solve the viscosity problem.

Using WVO by heating it is a cleaner burning, zero by product method. However, most ppl dont want to install a 2 tank kit in their vehicle, and therefore biodiesel is a great compromise.

My contention is that running biodiesel is equivalent to running WVO properly made in a heated 2 tank system. So Im tired of hearing how great bio-D is and how WVO is a hack job.

I wouldnt disagree with your flip comment about needing to do more research - all of us need that
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Last edited by a2t; 01-01-2008 at 07:38 PM.
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  #125  
Old 01-02-2008, 04:33 AM
ForcedInduction
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The reason for removing the glycerides thru transesterification is to reduce the viscosity.
That's only 1/2 of it. The glycerin is harmful to the injection pump and engine.
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  #126  
Old 01-02-2008, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
That's only 1/2 of it. The glycerin is harmful to the injection pump and engine.
Backup? Source? I'm not doubting you, just like to know where you got that from.
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  #127  
Old 01-02-2008, 04:47 AM
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Hmmmm well after a brief 5 minutes of internet research on the subject, it seems that a2t is correct: glycerin burns up easily in a high-compression reaction and is of very little or no concern as far as the engine goes.

The main reason for biodiesel is simply to bring it to D2 viscosity.
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  #128  
Old 01-02-2008, 04:51 AM
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Search.
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  #129  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Search.
Yep. Did it. The more I look, the more a2t's position is confirmed.

Glycerin is harmful in that it changes the viscosity of the fuel to much thicker than standard D2.

Also, IF not burned correctly (eg switching to VO before at the proper temps) it can cause polymerization and other yucky residues in the engine.

So yes, it is once again, a matter of being harmful to an engine IF used incorrectly.

But primarily (MUCH more than "1/2" the reason) the reason for the creation of BioD was viscosity.
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  #130  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:02 AM
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I wonder if any commercial BioD producers are also in the soap biz...

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