Sure on the bumpers, no klima relay that I saw, this was all from a 140 anyways, different system. I still have that crossover pipe I bought for you from the last SDL.

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1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350

OK, So this is a necrothread but I'm reviving it anyway since it has the above post and since I cannot PM gsxr privately about it to get any answers.

At any rate here's my question(s) about this:

Based on the above information, ANY 603.97x car found with a head that isn't a #17 has had a replacement. Would you say that's a fair and true statement?

Further, what the above paragraph from back in 2009 tells me is that NO car we got in the US originally came with a #22 cylinder had as produced by MB?

So the only way a person could possibly obtain a #18, #20 or #22 cylinder head is to 1) buy one directly from MB or 2) find a 603 that has had the head replaced at some point? (Not counting used sources since I'm really talking about back in 1990-95 period in time.)

And....if no car from 90-95 came with anything but a #17 do we know anything about when the later heads, (18, 20, 22) were released by MB? Has MB said anything about this or anything in the parts catalogs about incremental replacements?

And finally, I recently found a 94 S350D with a #18 cylinder head, the miles state 81k on the odometer and I believe it to be accurate. Would it be fair to say that the cylinder head on this engine was replaced at some point given the information originally posted by gsxr?

Thanks!

Steve

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Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others

VERY likely true. However I can't say with absolute certainty that the late 1995 build cars definitely had #17 heads, but anecdotal data implies this.



Yes.


Correct! At least for the #20 and #22. The #18 is in a gray area (see below).


MB says nothing. Best we could hope for is some people reporting what they received if they purchased a new head in the late 1990's, and/or received a warranty replacement in that timeframe.


This is tough to confirm, as it may have been replaced, OR it may have been that MB was using #18 heads in 1994. The important part is that it's the improved design and should be nearly impervious to cracking. Especially with a new head costing close to $2k nowadays.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

You’d have to dig through the chronology of EPC versions to find when part numbers were introduced.

A lot of what’s written here is educated conjecture since MB hasn’t published the story of 603 cylinder heads. This archive is a compendium of TSBs, observations and divinations of good folks like gsxr.

If you have access to engine serial numbers, you might be able to discern whether cylinder head alone or long block/entire engine was replaced.

Give Metric Motors a call and see if they’re in a chatty mood.

Tongue in cheek I have to ask why you’re not more concerned about the bottom half of your SD engine.

Sixto
05 E320 wagon 174K miles

thank you gsxr, you confirmed what made sense to me at any rate.

My car got the MB replacement short block with a new cylinder head back in 2002, so there's not much to worry about there. At least I don't think so...

Thanks for all the comments guys, it looks like 94/5 is going to be a grey area with cylinder head castings...it could have been a #18 or not, don't know. What would be nice is if we could find a car produced later that had a #17 casting and confirmed original build, that would suggest a replacement head on this 94 S350.

With the 94/5 cars you're talking about production of barely over 1000 units to begin with so it would be tough to find enough corroborating cars out there untainted by warranty work to prove one way or the other, which brings up another point I was thinking about today, the number of W140's turbo diesel cars left on the road today.....

I always have considered that half are lost every decade (maybe more), so at that rate for 92/3 and with only a quarter lost for the 94/5 cars in the last partial decade, it leads me to believe that there are likely less than 500 units left of the 300SD/S350TD cars on the road today....anyone else care to speculate on that one? According to the info I have there were 3233 originally produced in all years of W140 diesel combined.

Steve

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Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others

Your production / loss estimates are probably in the ballpark, although maybe a bit high. I'd hope that we don't lose half every decade. Might have half off the road (not registered / insured / driven) but probably not half wrecked/scrapped/junked.

These are high enough in value that they don't land at the local Pick+Pull as quickly as most other cars from the mid-1990's.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Possibly, but many of these (speaking of W140 cars) once they got to over 100k miles and a little on the shabby side they tended to drift into the ownership of people that didn't care all that much about them and were unlikely to spend much on significant maintenance.

The diesels were less vulnerable because there were less of them, but still I have seen posts up of cars where the world was not very kind to them.

I think we can agree that the remaining stock is somewhere in the range of 500-1000 of the original 3233 produced, is that more to your liking?

I still tend to think, barring any other data to the contrary, that half every decade is not that unrealistic...we would hope not, but I think it's probably close.

I mean here we have an 81k mile S350D in a junk yard....a real shame.

Steve

__________________
Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others

Question for gsxr or sixto.

I recently bought om603 motor
Out of car... no vin

Seller claims
93 300sd w 70k miles
Right hand drive vehicle

It has #22 head... catch is... the head casting number is upside-down! !!!

Is this crate motor?? But it has no tag
Y would they go through trouble of getting 22 head... when the bottom end was the issue.

Is it possible that 22 s were the real deal RHD euro original head??

Fyi seller started motor on pallet... sound smooth and nice

The only way for you to find out if it's going to burn oil is to just put it in a car and drive it.

Unless you want to take off the head and measure bore clearances. And even if you do that you're still not a 100% sure.

I know that the question is not to me but I hope you wont get mad

Not mad or offended at all.. Yes- I agree w/ you... but looking/hoping to avoid
those costs and hoping there is a "better/cheaper " way to find out if she burns oil -like crazy. It ran nice/quiet/smooth... no odd noises/knocks/etc.

and reading these recent posts-- IF 22's were NOT in original factory builds... (if I am reading this correctly)-- then 22 head IS a replacement-- and one MIGHT assume the Rods were beefed up too?? (or hope)- Cuz the Rods were the pitfall of this design.

Never heard of an upside-down casting number. No tag on the motor means it is very, VERY unlikely to be a crate motor / factory replacement. But it could have been rebuilt by a dealer or other engine shop. The #22 head didn't exist in 1993 so it's certainly not original.

The bottom ends were not all defective, that's a bit of a wildcard. Really all you can do is drive it and monitor oil consumption.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

If you want to know about the bottom end I would still consider pulling the pan and checking the rods. Since the engine is out anyway it's a pan gasket, and I'd probably do that to a motor that's out anyway before installing.

That would tell you about the bottom end situation, although if it doesn't have the beefier rods it won't tell you if the engine has any oil consumption problems, that you'll have to find out after it's installed and running.

According to the prior owner my car was consuming a quart every 100 miles prior to the replacement.....

Steve

__________________
Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others

so -- no chance it was an original head in RHD Euro car--Imported?

Re: 22 Casting upside- down... I asked around for weeks- no one had seen.
Finally got in touch with Pierre Hedary - well known MB mechanic- trained in Germany and Youtube channel fame... He 100% confirmed that UPSIDE-DOWN 22 heads are a real thing... suggested i get an oil lab test - from blackstone labs... I am not certain that will be that conclusive w respect to ovalling or rodbending?

when did 22 design come out? I guess I can hope that if they indeed replaced head to 22... they MIGHT have also- beefed up the rods?? I can hope!!!

Oil analysis may not show anything conclusive. I also don't know how to visually tell early/original connecting rods from late/upgraded rods, as viewed from below.

I don't know exactly when the #22 head was released, but it was no later than early 2002, as I purchased a new one around that time.

so- In conclusion
My 22 head- Is 100% a replacement head

No way to really know if it burns oil- until you drive it!

Knowing it is a replacement head... what are odds that the rods were done too??? seems pretty good-unless mechanic/repair shop thought the New 22 head would eliminate the Oil consumption?