Bruno ist Kaput! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 01-12-2008, 12:47 PM

The oil pump chain isn't driven from the timing chain, it a separate sprocket. I had my oil pump and chain replaced a few months ago when the oil pressure started to fluctuate. I think the pump is about $600, or so, the chain is cheap.

LUVMBDiesels · #17 01-12-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

The oil pump chain isn't driven from the timing chain, it a separate sprocket. I had my oil pump and chain replaced a few months ago when the oil pressure started to fluctuate. I think the pump is about $600, or so, the chain is cheap.

Thanks, I will check it out as soon as I can. right now I am in NY and the car is in WV. I had to rent a soulless Honda Accord to get home

I am going to pull the chain and pump form the engine I removed and bring them back down. The old engine had decent pressure before I pulled it.

Hatterasguy · #18 01-12-2008, 01:40 PM

Its probably not worth fixing. Replacing the oil pump and chain is going to cost $800-$1k. Considering the unknown service history and the damage done by running without pressure, your throwing good money after bad.

I'd either find another engine, or get another car.

Will it turn over by hand?

Mustang_man298 · #19 01-12-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

The oil pump chain isn't driven from the timing chain, it a separate sprocket. I had my oil pump and chain replaced a few months ago when the oil pressure started to fluctuate. I think the pump is about $600, or so, the chain is cheap.

The crank has 2 sprockets on it? I was of the understanding it was driven from a shaft geared to the shaft which runs the IP, which is driven by the timing chain via the vac pump sprocket.

LUVMBDiesels · #20 01-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang_man298

The crank has 2 sprockets on it? I was of the understanding it was driven from a shaft geared to the shaft which runs the IP, which is driven by the timing chain via the vac pump sprocket.

I looked at the service manual and there is a small chain that just drives the oil pump. I am thinking that Hatty is probably right and the engine is toast one way or the other.

It is too bad...

Mustang_man298 · #21 01-13-2008, 12:14 AM

Well, it wasn't really run without lost pressure, I'd at least pull the pan and maybe a bearing cap or two and check it out before just condemning it, you'll know quickly it if it was oil starved, these things are pretty pricy to just toss out on a whim...

I guess I'll have to go back and look thru my FSM on how these were set up...I haven't looked at the bottom end of one for a year or two now...

lietuviai · #22 01-13-2008, 12:53 AM

I think I might have an extra good used oil pump.

350SL4spd · #23 01-13-2008, 01:14 AM

The BIG question that no one has asked is: Did she overheat at all? If It didn't overheat at the end while you were checking it in the parking lot, most of the internals should be OK. We've all watched the videos on youtube of people running 240Ds w/o oil and trying to seize them; it just ain't that easy.

I've had personal experience of a 1991 OM602 dropping it's oil pump chain and the owner driving it until FULL seize. It turned out to be way cheaper to do a 'soft' rebuild than to put a used engine in (just bearings rings etc, the owner was a douche...). And that thing is still going 30kmi plus since. And the 602s aren't nearly as robust as the 617s as far as I'm concerned.

If the temp wasn't topped out at the end, there shouldn't be too much damage. I'd put a breaker bar on the crank & make damn sure she was seized first. There are quite a few things that could be wrong, I'd start eliminating before I wrote it off.

Just an old dieselhead's hope that you're not f-ed.

-M-

t walgamuth · #24 01-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Its worth a look. I bet the chain to the op broke and has jammed. I don't know how hard that is to change or if it is even possilbe to do with the engine in the car, but dropping the small steel oil pan is pretty easy and that is the first step. The oil pump itself may even be good still.

I am pretty sure I have a spare one that is good if you need it.

Tom W

Brian Carlton · #25 01-13-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350SL4spd

The BIG question that no one has asked is: Did she overheat at all? If It didn't overheat at the end while you were checking it in the parking lot, most of the internals should be OK. We've all watched the videos on youtube of people running 240Ds w/o oil and trying to seize them; it just ain't that easy.

I've had personal experience of a 1991 OM602 dropping it's oil pump chain and the owner driving it until FULL seize. It turned out to be way cheaper to do a 'soft' rebuild than to put a used engine in (just bearings rings etc, the owner was a douche...). And that thing is still going 30kmi plus since. And the 602s aren't nearly as robust as the 617s as far as I'm concerned.

If the temp wasn't topped out at the end, there shouldn't be too much damage. I'd put a breaker bar on the crank & make damn sure she was seized first. There are quite a few things that could be wrong, I'd start eliminating before I wrote it off.

Just an old dieselhead's hope that you're not f-ed.

-M-

Well said.

I agree.

LUVMBDiesels · #26 01-13-2008, 10:13 AM

Thanks for the good words. The temp never went above 85 degrees and the oil pressure was at 3+ when the break happened. I was thinking that if the chain broke it had probably spread destruction across the lower end. I will bring the car up to John Hef's and ask him to pull the lower pan. I cannot do it in the driveway of my rented house otherwise I would do it myself. I do have the original engine and I can pull the oil pump and chain from that which would save me a lot of money. I would just return the original engine to its rightful place under the hood, but I never did chase down the knock. If the engine in the car is toast, maybe I will tear apart the one I have up in NY and see what is wrong with it. The reason I did not do that before is because I was told that even fixing a knocking running engine would be more expensive than just replacing it. I kept it for the turbo, IP, etc...

Anyway, please keep the suggestions coming and I will let you all know what we find out.

Joe

kernelpanic · #27 01-13-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350SL4spd

The BIG question that no one has asked is: Did she overheat at all? If It didn't overheat at the end while you were checking it in the parking lot, most of the internals should be OK. We've all watched the videos on youtube of people running 240Ds w/o oil and trying to seize them; it just ain't that easy.

I've had personal experience of a 1991 OM602 dropping it's oil pump chain and the owner driving it until FULL seize. It turned out to be way cheaper to do a 'soft' rebuild than to put a used engine in (just bearings rings etc, the owner was a douche...). And that thing is still going 30kmi plus since. And the 602s aren't nearly as robust as the 617s as far as I'm concerned.

If the temp wasn't topped out at the end, there shouldn't be too much damage. I'd put a breaker bar on the crank & make damn sure she was seized first. There are quite a few things that could be wrong, I'd start eliminating before I wrote it off.

Just an old dieselhead's hope that you're not f-ed.

-M-

Ditto ....these motors/bearings are tougher than people give them credit for.
Do some testing, give your self some time to think and figure it out.
Bet she will back up and running in 2 weeks

Johnhef · #28 03-21-2008, 08:29 PM

Quick Update:
I pulled the lower pan tonight and from what I can tell, something at the back of the engine around Cyl's 4 or 5 is keeping it from turning. It will rotate backward a 1/2 to 3/4 turn then stop. This thing is amazingly clean, top end and bottom end are spotless and shiny!

Diesel911 · #29 03-22-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef

Quick Update:
I pulled the lower pan tonight and from what I can tell, something at the back of the engine around Cyl's 4 or 5 is keeping it from turning. It will rotate backward a 1/2 to 3/4 turn then stop. This thing is amazingly clean, top end and bottom end are spotless and shiny!

How did the oil pump chain and chain tensioner look?