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  #16  
Old 01-26-2008, 09:19 PM
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And will they bolt up to a 603 3.0L?

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  #17  
Old 01-27-2008, 01:54 AM
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the 602 is an amazing engine. Mine's got 421k and the bottom end's never been touched.

it's on it's second headgasket (actually, it's dead in my driveway) If I pull this head and see something horrendous in the bottom end, I'm looking to do a 606 Turbo with a 5-speed. (yes it CAN be done)

The 5-speed trans can be ordered directly from MB for $2k. - and will last forever if takin care of....
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffNLisa View Post
OK, in the same area of questioning, can anyone give a comparison of 2.5 to the 3.0 in the 124 car?

An 87 model with a 603 compared to a 90 model with a 602. The cars would have to be virtually identical, so exactly how do the two motors compare in virtually identical cars?
I own both an '87 and '93, so I can give you a good comparison. In a nutshell, the 602 provides better fuel economy, at the expense of power. The 602 is noticeably more sluggish compared to the 603. But if you want MPG, you probably won't care about the power difference. If you are more interested in power than MPG, I'd forget the 602 unless you don't mind creating a SuperTurbo out of it (the Finns have pumped over 300hp from the 602.)

But, the nice thing about the 1990+ models are all the other little conveniences... one-touch down windows, optional passenger airbag, the cosmetic upgrades (wide lower body moulding, chrome door handle inserts, etc), wood trim on the dash & doors, optional ASD, etc etc.

Handling on both will be nearly identical, assuming all wear items are replaced (bushings, etc). The weight is about the same... the 602 has a lighter powertrain, but the cosmetic stuff added some of that weight back.

Chassis, engine, & performance specs are all in this Excel spreadsheet, if you want to compare further.

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  #19  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:28 AM
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it's on it's second headgasket (actually, it's dead in my driveway) If I pull this head and see something horrendous in the bottom end, I'm looking to do a 606 Turbo with a 5-speed. (yes it CAN be done). The 5-speed trans can be ordered directly from MB for $2k. - and will last forever if takin care of....
The power output from a 606 turbo might be a little too much for the 5-speed manual trans. I'd be careful if you do that swap. The 5-speed auto trans can deal with tons of power, but installing a 722.6 into a 124 is something that to date, nobody has been able to do. Besides the problems with the electronics, I'm not sure if the 722.6 will physically fit in the 124 trans tunnel.

It would be far easier to put a 606 turbo in there with a good ol' 722.3 tranny. You'll need a mechanical pump, but you can get a ton of power from that 606 if you want... same with the 603, of course. I'm working on tweaking my 603 at the moment.

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  #20  
Old 01-27-2008, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
The power output from a 606 turbo might be a little too much for the 5-speed manual trans. I'd be careful if you do that swap. The 5-speed auto trans can deal with tons of power, but installing a 722.6 into a 124 is something that to date, nobody has been able to do. Besides the problems with the electronics, I'm not sure if the 722.6 will physically fit in the 124 trans tunnel.

It would be far easier to put a 606 turbo in there with a good ol' 722.3 tranny. You'll need a mechanical pump, but you can get a ton of power from that 606 if you want... same with the 603, of course. I'm working on tweaking my 603 at the moment.

I have place's that build trans for handling power, so that wont be a problem.

Dr. Frankenstein himself said it was possible.


Bigger Turbo, modified IP (giles, in canada should do fuel re-mapping and installing bigger plungers) maybe even Nitrous; Sportline kit coming soon.

you said ASD was an option on these cars? where would one check?
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Monomer View Post
I have place's that build trans for handling power, so that wont be a problem.

Dr. Frankenstein himself said it was possible.


Bigger Turbo, modified IP (giles, in canada should do fuel re-mapping and installing bigger plungers) maybe even Nitrous; Sportline kit coming soon.

you said ASD was an option on these cars? where would one check?
I think there is an LCD in the console on the cars that have it, but GSXR would know for sure.
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2008, 05:45 PM
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rkohut View Post
- Similar reliabilty to the 616/617
- Less maintenance than 616/617 (no valve adjustment)
- Same power as 617 turbo, quicker due to less weight
- Quieter and less smoke
- 37 mpg

Only thing is the 2.5 turbos appear to be very rare in the US.
IIRC only 12,000?

More:
W124 diesels, the good, bad and the ugly?
Our W124 is the only car in 30+ years the wife has truely liked and does not complain about, and she has gone though enough new & used to make me weep at the dollars wasted. It is quite and comfortable both city and the long haul, has the classic MB looks, very reliable drive train with plenty of power to pass and will do 115 easy, not sure of top end but I is faster then any 3L I have driven with the exception of the 05 and up diesel cars. Those cars are rockets.

I think the 12,000 is about correct, but the actual 90 model was probably more like a hundred or less cars as they showed up late in MY and then
came the '91 models. Not sure of what the differences were in the model years.

These are very popular among some of the Veggie heads due to the large window washer fluid tank for use as a warmer for the vegie oil, or so I was told by a guy who wanted to buy our '91 car.

The only PIA with the '91 IMHO is that it was built for a max MPG being at about 55 to 60 mph (1800 rpm range) on the highway, when crusing 75 mph as done here in MO it is pulling 3000/3100 rpm, compared to about 2100/2200 for my 05 CDI and that is a big difference for fuel ecomony let me tell you.
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post

But, the nice thing about the 1990+ models are all the other little conveniences... one-touch down windows,
I've already got those. Touched the window switch once the other day and the second regulator seems to have died. Almost never got it back up.

On topic, now... the only thing I know about the 602 turbo in a 124 (300d) is that some neighbors of ours have one, and if anybody is hard on cars it's them. Theirs is still ticking right along. So is their 99 e300d. Must be fairly reliable.
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2008, 08:10 PM
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I've already got those. Touched the window switch once the other day and the second regulator seems to have died. Almost never got it back up.

On topic, now... the only thing I know about the 602 turbo in a 124 (300d) is that some neighbors of ours have one, and if anybody is hard on cars it's them. Theirs is still ticking right along. So is their 99 e300d. Must be fairly reliable.
Ours it running like a new Singer sewing machine at 194,xxx miles. It does have a small oil leak at the oil pan but not enough to dribble every day and even then it leaks by spells for some reason.
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2008, 08:36 PM
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I have place's that build trans for handling power, so that wont be a problem. Dr. Frankenstein himself said it was possible.

Bigger Turbo, modified IP (giles, in canada should do fuel re-mapping and installing bigger plungers) maybe even Nitrous; Sportline kit coming soon.

you said ASD was an option on these cars? where would one check?
1) What Franken-trans are you building... 5-speed auto, or manual?

2) About your plans for a turbo upgrade and modofied IP... is this on your 602, or the 606? And are the bigger p/b elements (plungers) 6mm or 7mm?

3) ASD is a pretty rare option, especially in warmer climates. It will appear as option code 211 in the datacard, or if you're looking at the instrument cluster, there will be a square yellow triangle light in the middle of the speedometer (above the odometer), as well as an ASD light near the glow light. But, it's better to check the datacard, and/or look for the hydrualic plumbing under the hood, in case someone happened to swap instrument clusters (I saw a car like this on eBay once... cluster indicated ASD, photo under the hood - and decoding the VIN - said otherwise.) In the USA, ASD was only an option on the 124.128 (2.5T), not the 124.133 (1987 300D). You can convert to limited-slip on any 124 though, it's not exactly cheap, but possible. There's a few threads on that, use the search function to look them up...

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  #27  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:02 PM
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5-Speed Manual. I don't know which rear end ratio yet.


The IP will be modded to keep up with fuel demand. "Giles" over in Canada is a legend for re-mapping the VW pumps, I hope he does Bosch M/MW pumps


606 - full sheet metal intake. Side dump exhaust (not resonator/muffler) Only thing to figure out is what to do with those pesky flex disks, so I don't shear them....

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