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  #46  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:13 PM
lietuviai's Avatar
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From what I remember I think those grooves on the OM617.952 crank were longer. They were the full length of the balancer's thickness. It's possible that they were redesigned on later engines.

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  #47  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:18 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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I am not a machinist but the groove looks pretty good to me too. I am surprised it is not longer too.

Tom W
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:33 PM
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Read this thread. In one of the posts is the text of a safety recall to replace the pulleys on 78 and 79 engines. I have no idea if safety recalls this old are still in effect. But if you run into problems fixing the problem, it might be worth a call to MB to see if the recall work was ever done.

How do I attach pulley assembly- Pictures.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
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  #49  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:43 PM
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Here's a thread with pictures of damaged pin slots on the crankshaft:

Harmonic Balancer Woes...


I'm wondering if it's possible to weld the balancer to the crank if the pin slots are damaged. If the crank is shot anyway, it seems as though getting the pins roughly in place, and welding the balancer is worth attempting. Perhaps there is no room for a weld between the balancer and vibration dampner. Maybe the materials can't effectively be welded.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #50  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:52 PM
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This thread has a really good description on how to align the balancer and install the dowel pins. It also mentions that there is an updated dowel pin.

Failed 123 Diesel Harmonic Balancers

Here's some additional advice from another thread:

"I thought I would also add the following: I read on another Mercedes board that the pulley and balancer can come loose if they are installed incorrectly. It is my understanding that these two parts can rotate as you crank down on the bolt, which damages the key rihgt then and there, with the result that everything comes loose again in the near future. What you are supposed to do is install them a little off to the left, so that when you tighten the bolt they rotate slightly to the right and fall into place with the key and slotj. Otherwise the pulley and balancer try to rotate and end up putting a lot of stress on the keys. In any event, you have to watch as you tighten to makesure the balancer isn't turning (and in turn damaging the key) as you are tightening the bolt.

Someone please correct me if I explained this wrong. I just remember reading something about this a long time ago and wanted to make the point as best I could. I have never actually done this job, so I can't give any other advice besides hearsay.

Good luck.

Greg
'84 300D"

He's got a pretty good explanation there. 250 foot pounds of torque twisting the dowel pins would account for the lengthwise shearing.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Last edited by kerry; 01-28-2008 at 12:12 AM.
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  #51  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:53 PM
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I'm just posting to reiterate, that the slots for the pins are not exactly 180 from each other. I would hate to hear a story filled with fustration, busted knuckles, and maybe broken parts, from not realizing this.

Good luck!
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  #52  
Old 01-27-2008, 11:59 PM
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I think the balancer got out of time with the harmonics it was designed to dampen and that caused the pins to shear. I'd get a new balancer and pins and locktight it all together.
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  #53  
Old 01-28-2008, 12:00 AM
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This guy tried the welding (unsuccessfully) but interestingly, redrilled the dowel holes and then added more dowel holes and fixed it.

All Right!

i wonder how all that drilling was done?? Put the balancer on the crank and start drilling holes

Here's the answer: Drilled with the radiator in place with a 90 degree drill.

I'm Baaack! Big troubles though!
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Last edited by kerry; 01-28-2008 at 12:08 AM.
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  #54  
Old 01-28-2008, 03:08 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesNB View Post
Bought a '79 300SD a little over a month ago for a commuter car. been working great until today. Steering got difficult; battery, brake and steering lights came on. Temperature went up. I thought I had broken a belt but not the case.
All the belts were intact. The power steering belt was a little loose but not bad. I started her back up (started easily) and none of the pulleys were turning, not even the crankshaft pulley. There was no smoking or squealing.
Is there a clutch on the crank or something that's screwed up? I can't see how else the engine would run without the crank pulley turning.
Any help?
For a 1979 300SD W116.120
You will need six new pulley cap screws, NOTE: harmonic balancer may need to be replaced.
I suggest three sets of harmonic balancer dowel pins, because they are single use.


Item Number: 000912008203
Main Category: MB
Sub Category: Engine Mechanical
Description: Harmonic pulley cap screws (six per OM617 engine)
Weight: 0.030
http://catalog.peachparts.com/item.wws?qty=1&mfr=TYS%3A+OES&sku=000912008203


Item Number: 000007008244
Main Category: MB
Sub Category: Engine Mechanical
Description: Dowel, harmonic balancer...(two per engine)
Weight: 0.020
http://catalog.peachparts.com/item.wws?qty=1&mfr=MBSC&sku=000007008244



NOTE:
A safety recall never ends.




Have a great day.
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Last edited by whunter; 03-16-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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  #55  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:09 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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[QUOTE=kerry;1745518]This thread has a really good description on how to align the balancer and install the dowel pins. It also mentions that there is an updated dowel pin.

Failed 123 Diesel Harmonic Balancers

Here's some additional advice from another thread:

"I thought I would also add the following: I read on another Mercedes board that the pulley and balancer can come loose if they are installed incorrectly. It is my understanding that these two parts can rotate as you crank down on the bolt, which damages the key rihgt then and there, with the result that everything comes loose again in the near future. What you are supposed to do is install them a little off to the left, so that when you tighten the bolt they rotate slightly to the right and fall into place with the key and slotj. Otherwise the pulley and balancer try to rotate and end up putting a lot of stress on the keys. In any event, you have to watch as you tighten to makesure the balancer isn't turning (and in turn damaging the key) as you are tightening the bolt.

Someone please correct me if I explained this wrong. I just remember reading something about this a long time ago and wanted to make the point as best I could. I have never actually done this job, so I can't give any other advice besides hearsay.

Good luck.

Greg

I have always left the dowell pin installation to my favorite machinist so I have not done the proceedure, but he has described it briefly to me and the above description sounds about right. Very tricky to get right and disasterous if gotten wrong.

Although the loss is minimal if the welding in place does not work since you are faced with a new crank and a tear down to install it anyway, a failure could occur on the road and might be most inconvenient.

I would also like to pm the person who drilled and installed pins in new locations and see if that is still holding. I would consider it very lucky if that works long term.

Tom W
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #56  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I would also like to pm the person who drilled and installed pins in new locations and see if that is still holding. I would consider it very lucky if that works long term.

Tom W
I think one of those threads has a post thousands of miles after the redrilling and it was still holding.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #57  
Old 02-05-2008, 12:08 AM
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Well time for an update...
It was tough getting the front main seal out due to the gasket cement they used but I got it out. Then I found a significant problem. The spacer ring was broken; it actually looks like a piece was missing. I hope it didn't do much damage clunking around in the engine. I'm planning to drop the oil pan to replace the gasket; maybe it will be there. I'll post a pic of the broken part. Makes me glad I went the extra step of replacing the main seal. I used the whunter cup tool method described in the DIY Section; it worked great and I would have screwed it up if I hadn't read the article.
I ordered a used harmonic balancer. The old one was pretty "wollered out". The crank shaft felt like it was in good shape--no noticable rings or wear. I guess the softer balancer absorbed all the wear.
I've read a number of posts on aligning the dowels and will do that part this weekend. I have four sets of dowels on hand in case it take a few tries. FYI--the new dowels from MB are beveled on both ends and seem to be of a higher grade. They're kinda yellow like Grade 8 bolts.
I don't think I'm going to use Loctite on the 18mm bolt, probably just Antisieze. I'm planning to use assembly grease on the dowels but I'll use Loctite on the capscrews that hold the pulley on.
I've been trying to locate a big torque wrench; mine only goes up to 150 Nm. I'm thinking about using my 18" breaker bar and my 200# body weight. That should get it close to the 270-330 Nm spec (1.5ft X 200lbs=300ft lbs = about 400 Nm). Then I can go to a shop to check it.
Updates to follow...
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  #58  
Old 02-05-2008, 12:39 AM
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If there's enough room for it, it might be better to use a torque multiplier rather than buying another torque wrench.
Not sure I like the idea of antiseize as opposed to Loctite since there are accounts of that bolt coming loose.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #59  
Old 02-05-2008, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
If there's enough room for it, it might be better to use a torque multiplier rather than buying another torque wrench.
Not sure I like the idea of antiseize as opposed to Loctite since there are accounts of that bolt coming loose.
I appreciate your concern and thanks for the links you provided. I'm thinking of going with the antiseize for three or four reasons:
1. The MB manual says to lube the 18mm bolt
2. I'll need to go to a shop to verify the torque and that would break the loctite seal. Plus the rotation of the engine would tend to tighten rather than loosen the bolt (or "screw" as the Germans call it lol).
3. I think most of the failures are due to the bolt not being tightened to spec or something else going wrong.
4. And the biggest reason--the Germans tend to over engineer things. If an 18mm bolt torqued to 300Nm with three cup springs comes loose, there is probably a reason. Even though the big bolt coming loose would be bad, I think a glued in big bolt coming loose would compromise the "if something is going to break, make it the less expensive parts" principle.

Number four is just a big assumption on my part but comes from a good number of years working on different types of German built equipment (mostly lab equipment). But one thing seems to remain constant, if they designed something a certain way, there were several good reasons.

Of course, I could be talking out my ass and would appreciate "been there, done that" advice.

Again, thanks for your help; I'm certain I would have been chasing my tail over this one if I had had everyone's help.

Any other input?
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  #60  
Old 02-05-2008, 04:14 AM
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one word, Loctite.

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