Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Urbana, Missouri
Posts: 171
transmission question

I have a 617.952 that I am puttint into a W116 body and I want to put a transmission from a 617.950 on it, The transmission has R 116 on the side of it and I know the 952 is not from a W116 body.

Are there any issues I might have with mating the transmission to the 952 engine that anyone is aware of?

Thanks.

__________________
Rev. Dr. G. Church of the SubGenius
It doesn't take a genius
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-28-2008, 04:40 PM
jshadows's Avatar
Bob
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris, FR
Posts: 737
not an expert here, but you may have some different final gear ratios depending on the differential in your 116. The original 116 SD transmission was a 722.120.

also, the 617.952 has a different upper oil pan that will not fit in the stock 116 engine compartment due to the crossyolk.
__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:07 PM
junqueyardjim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cicero, Hamilton County, Indiana about 30 miles north of downtown Indianapolis
Posts: 2,623
Well, this is how I see it.

Gary, after reading the above post, i thought I would do a little checking. I thought the car you were working on had or was originally equipped with a 617 diesel. Now, after checking the "Russian site" here is what I see. First they don't list a W116 with a diesel. So, I guess that is what our friend Henry Dupont has just done also, made one into a diesel. Now looking at the engine block and specifically the upper pan, let me list these two pages. The first is a W116 with a 280 gasser.
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=116020&M=110%2E922&GA=722%2E100102%2C111&GM=716%2E001006+++++++++++717%2E000&L=765%2E702&CT=M&cat=032&SID=01&SGR=001&SGN=01
That six hole engine is very close in size to the 300D and you can see from the drawing that the pans look almost identical. But they most probably would not exchange, probably a difference somewhere. But as anyone can see, the sump is the same "approximate size" and set all the way forward. Now here is the URL for the 617 from a 300D W123.
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123130&M=617%2E912&GA=722%2E118405&GM=716%2E005++++++++++++++717%2E400&CT=M&cat=143&SID=01&SGR=045&SGN=05
I see no reason why the engine should not go in like flin .
Your differential if you are converting from a gasser will most probably be to fast and you probably would be well off getting one that is geared for a diesel. You probably would get quite good mileage if you left it as it is, that is highway mileage, but your performance would be quite poor. It probably has a 2.87 ratio in there for a gas engine, probably should be a 3.17 or 3.23 for the diesel. I will have a good one available from a W123 sometime this summer. Again, we would have to check to see if that differential would mount up to the W116 body.
__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Urbana, Missouri
Posts: 171
diesel

Jim, the W116 is a 1980 Turbo 300SD. It is a diesel 5 cylinder 617.950 turbo diesel engine. Your engine is a 617.952 turbo diesel engine.

The transmission bolts look a little different, not by much and maybe not significantly. I'm not sure at this point as I'm just getting ready to remove the transmission from the old engine and see how it mates up to the 617.952 engine.

I know about the oil sending unit being mechanical on the 1980 617.950 and it doesn't look like there is any problem switching to it from the electrical on the 617.952. The mounts on the engine were different but I just removed them from the old engine and put them on the 617.952 engine so there should be no problem there.

I was curious however if anyone had done this before and if there was something I needed to know ahead of time.

Thanks.
__________________
Rev. Dr. G. Church of the SubGenius
It doesn't take a genius
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 604
i have put a 617.951 i think it was into my now totaled W116...

jshadows is correct, there is some fitment issues with the upper oil pan... nothing that a grinder did not take care of... but... fix it while it is out of the car ... ask me how i know

ideally you would want to take the entire oil filter housing set up with out and replace the gasket in there too... an ordered gasket as it is very complex and important... and if you take it with you yo can take the back plate off of it and replace that gasket so you don't break the oil pressure sending line... again not needed to ask how i know..

you have to swap over the motor mount arms from your 617.950...

the block heaters are different connections...

oh the transmission.... you are going to have to get some nuts and a bit longer bolts and grind one of the nuts to fit into the hole in the upper oil pan on the drivers side... you can do all the fiting with the engine out... i did it lying under the hanging engine

i think that is all
__________________
-Trevor

OBK #12
1980 300SD 333,XXX miles - Totaled
1986 Mazda RX-7 212,XXX miles - impounded and auctioned off
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited 33,000- SEGR, Provent, Fumoto
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Urbana, Missouri
Posts: 171
engine, traansmission switch

Thanks for the information, Trevor. My brother had a 617.952 replace his 1980 617.950 and I do recall something about a part of the cross member being cut out slightly. I'll have to take a closer look at it today.

I'm not sure what your saying about the oil filter housing, Looking at the two engines the model numbers on the oil filter housings are identical so I'm not quite sure why they would need to be swapped?

Also thanks for the heads up on the bolts. The two engines are currently out and sitting on the floor while I'm switching things from the 617.950 to the 617.952 so the cross member is easily accessed. It's just a matter of knowing where to grind it down for the upper oil pan to fit and not removing too much.

Thanks, everyone.
__________________
Rev. Dr. G. Church of the SubGenius
It doesn't take a genius
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-29-2008, 10:22 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
Grinding may not be the way to go with this one. They stiffened the upper oil pan for a reason- if you grind away the stiffening you will be concentrating that stess over that small area- may cause it to fail later. Just my 2 pfennigs.

Rick
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-29-2008, 10:48 AM
jshadows's Avatar
Bob
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Paris, FR
Posts: 737
this is not the first time this has been discussed on the forum. Try a little searching as I believe there are posts which mention how to put a 952 engine in a 116 chassis without grinding, welding or otherwise compromising the original structure of car or engine.
__________________
1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
2007 Pinarello F3:13
1995 Ducati 916 (SOLD, sniff)
1999 Ducati 900SSie (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:17 AM
Admiral-Third World Fleet
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central FL
Posts: 3,069
..you can swap the smooth upper oil pan from your old engine onto the new engine. Just lots and lots of bolts and mess, no doubt.
__________________
80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 604
i ground off the upper oil pan... they are what look to be cooling fins.. i would not grind the cross member...

also replscing the motor mounts might take care of the clearance issues,,, that is the one part i did not replace...

you want to replace the oilfilter to block gasket while it is out so that you don't have to do it while it is in the engine... the little cost save in the long run...

oh and my oil pressure line broke that is why i had all the fuss with swapping the oil filter housings

__________________
-Trevor

OBK #12
1980 300SD 333,XXX miles - Totaled
1986 Mazda RX-7 212,XXX miles - impounded and auctioned off
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited 33,000- SEGR, Provent, Fumoto
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page