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  #1  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:41 PM
My hood can go higher?
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 315
Transmission is flaking out :(

When the car is first started cold, the transmission acts "funny" for about 10 minutes and then it operates just fine. My assumption is when its cold, the erratic behavior occurs.

What happens is when the car comes to a stop sometimes, you can then no longer propel the car with the pedal; engine revs but no power to the ground. Sometimes at a stop I can hear the transmission make a *pop* sound like it just shifted into neutral (while still in D) but other times I hear nothing and it still doesn't put power to the ground.
I have figured out that when the transmission is still cold, you can prevent this from happening by lightly feathering the throttle, very slight pressure, very slow acceleration. Even doing this sometimes the car will "catch" and suddenly have no power off the line then I have to immediately let my foot off the pedal, then try to give it a light touch again.
Once warmed up everything acts just fine.


Any ideas what is going on?
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1983 240D AT, 163K running on VO, "The Patience Tester"
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2008, 07:52 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,861
Is the fluid at the proper level, and has it been changed (as well as the filter) recently?
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'89 420SEL 168k - mine (OC-170,000)
'93 190D 2.2 - 223k - mine (OC-222,700)
'01 E320 Wagon - 149k - mine (OC-154,000)
'05 C240 4matic Wagon - 153k - wifes (OC-154,500)
'01 E320 - 162k - Dad's (OC-163,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 116k - dad's (OC-121,500)
'02 E320 - 193k - Brother's (OC - 192,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 84k - Brothers (OC-85,500)
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northeast Indiana
Posts: 10,767
Could be fluid level or filter as Paul says, could be the transmission is tired.

When a transmission's seals are so bad that the internal leaks don't allow it to build adequate control pressure, the car won't go. Heating up the fluid and seals will then make them soft enough for a decent seal. Common failure mode.

If you've exhausted all other possibilities, a temporary fix is possible, where a solvent is added to the ATF to soften the seals, I believe a small quantity of Acetone is what some of my old-school transmission guys say to use, amount unknown to me. Several ATF additives are avialble to accomplish this. It is not a permanent fix, and certainly won't do the transmission any good, but WTH, it's rebuild time anyway.
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:17 PM
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Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,861
161k seems like early failure for an auto on a 240d....doesn't it? Unless it was abused its whole life of course.....240s don't exactly put a big strain on the tranny....
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'89 420SEL 168k - mine (OC-170,000)
'93 190D 2.2 - 223k - mine (OC-222,700)
'01 E320 Wagon - 149k - mine (OC-154,000)
'05 C240 4matic Wagon - 153k - wifes (OC-154,500)
'01 E320 - 162k - Dad's (OC-163,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 116k - dad's (OC-121,500)
'02 E320 - 193k - Brother's (OC - 192,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 84k - Brothers (OC-85,500)
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2008, 03:22 AM
My hood can go higher?
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 315
I dropped the pan and changed the filter. I didn't drain the torque convertor and only about 1.5qts of fluid came out :-\

Shifts are often smoother now but the problem persists and it is actually happening now more than ever Its been happening even when everything is warmed up and its been harder to get it to actually put power down from a stop.
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1983 240D AT, 163K running on VO, "The Patience Tester"
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2008, 07:03 AM
Registered Shadetree
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoloz View Post
I dropped the pan and changed the filter. I didn't drain the torque convertor and only about 1.5qts of fluid came out :-\

Shifts are often smoother now but the problem persists and it is actually happening now more than ever Its been happening even when everything is warmed up and its been harder to get it to actually put power down from a stop.
Are you absolutely positive the fluid is now at the proper level?
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 104
Do a search on B2 piston. I had a car that would slip in the lower gears and then shift fine into the higher gears once you got rolling. There is a piston that you can replace by removing the cross member and lowering the tranny to get to it on the side of the tranny, passengers side. There is a up graded model. Got the part from Phil about $130. Not to tough of a job . Rick
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2008, 12:45 PM
AHH,What's up Doc????
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoloz View Post
When the car is first started cold, the transmission acts "funny" for about 10 minutes and then it operates just fine. My assumption is when its cold, the erratic behavior occurs.

What happens is when the car comes to a stop sometimes, you can then no longer propel the car with the pedal; engine revs but no power to the ground. Sometimes at a stop I can hear the transmission make a *pop* sound like it just shifted into neutral (while still in D) but other times I hear nothing and it still doesn't put power to the ground.
I have figured out that when the transmission is still cold, you can prevent this from happening by lightly feathering the throttle, very slight pressure, very slow acceleration. Even doing this sometimes the car will "catch" and suddenly have no power off the line then I have to immediately let my foot off the pedal, then try to give it a light touch again.
Once warmed up everything acts just fine.


Any ideas what is going on?
Try checking the fluid level with the engine fully warmed up and the transmission in neutral while the engine is running. Your measurements are meaningless uinless the motor is running and what reads as full when the motor is off will not even show up on the dipstick with it running! I know it's simple, but I catch people all the time who forget or don't know this! 161K on a 240 D Automatic is unlikely to have a transmission failure without some serious neglect or abuse! Also, try putting in about a quart of Lucas brand TransFix. This is a sticky lubricant that does a great deal to help free up sticking parts and rejuvenate seals with safe chemicals and your tranny will run cooler too!
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:03 PM
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Location: Annapolis, Md.
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I second the B2 piston.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2008, 08:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 116
sounds like what happened to me when my B2 piston failed. www.dieselgiant.com has a write-up on the repair. On the 240D, you will have to disconnect the driveshaft to get the tranny low enough to access the B2 piston cover, as there isn't as much clearance as on the 300SDL in the tutorial I referenced above.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2008, 03:24 AM
My hood can go higher?
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 315
I've had to gradually add fluid the first 2 times I tried it since draining fluid but I'm fairly certain its at the right level now. I check with the engine warm and running in neutral.


Luck will have it that I already posess an updated B2 piston, just in case I were to ever need it

My patience for doing car maintenance has really dwindled though. I barely got through a simple fluid drain and filter change. I'm going to have to opt for a mechanic to install the B2 for the sake of my own sanity. Anyone have this done at a shop? What kind of rate am I looking at?
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1983 240D AT, 163K running on VO, "The Patience Tester"
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2008, 04:17 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,861
Installing the B2 piston is not that big of a job....I bet a shop could do it in an hour. I'd probably go to a dealer though....I don't trust the average shop to work on a MB properly....most "average" shops don't have much experience with them.
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'89 420SEL 168k - mine (OC-170,000)
'93 190D 2.2 - 223k - mine (OC-222,700)
'01 E320 Wagon - 149k - mine (OC-154,000)
'05 C240 4matic Wagon - 153k - wifes (OC-154,500)
'01 E320 - 162k - Dad's (OC-163,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 116k - dad's (OC-121,500)
'02 E320 - 193k - Brother's (OC - 192,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 84k - Brothers (OC-85,500)
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2008, 10:46 PM
My hood can go higher?
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 315
I have an appointment with a shop that quoted me two shop hours at $92/hr.
Hopefully this will do it
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1983 240D AT, 163K running on VO, "The Patience Tester"
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2008, 03:44 PM
My hood can go higher?
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 315
Another Mercedes specific shop I called is telling me that a B2 piston replacement is going to be "a waste of money" and won't fix anything. Talking out their ass or legitimate?
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1983 240D AT, 163K running on VO, "The Patience Tester"
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2008, 08:29 PM
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Location: Pacific NW
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If it comes out in pieces you know that was it.I think there is a new plastic sleeve that needs to be replaced also. The old sleeves were metal and the piston would get stuck and come apart. The plastic sleave solves that problem.
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