Replacing Starter 1980TD - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tobybul · #31 02-09-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

There was no need to mess with anything other than the starter when I did it in my 77 300d NA. The bolts are TIGHT. I'd be using 1/2" all the way.

Thanks, Kerry. I never had problems using 3/8s even on larger bolts but I guess the starter is different.

barry123400 · #32 02-09-2008, 10:06 PM

Maybe not the best way but I found removing the steering idler bolt increased room for an easy remove and install of the starter. Just less of a puzzle to get the starter past the steering linkages when unbolted.

tobybul · #33 03-14-2008, 10:18 PM

yes, I'm still fiddling with the starter

....... finally got my 1/2" drive impact u-joint for the skt. still can't budge allen bolt off starter. will have to remove exh pipe. its in the way of my ratchet. also took off manifold but looks like that ain't gonna buy me anything besides room to lift starter from top. was hoping I would have more room to remove starter bolts from top but looks like it has to done from bottom.

#34 03-14-2008, 10:22 PM

I watched my indy replace mine in about 30 minutes. He put the car on a lift, dropped the rear of the transmission a few inches and used a long extension with a breaker bar on the bolts. He wiggled it out the bottom by turning the wheels back and forth to get the tie rod out of the way. I'm glad I didn't try to do it without a lift.

pawoSD · #35 03-14-2008, 10:40 PM

I like my method of a small piece of allen key (about 1" long) + an open end wrench of the correct size....with a long pipe over it for leverage. Worked great on that upper bolt with almost no room to reach it in there. Lower bolt I used the allen key + pipe or wrench.

No need to loosen the tranny or use extensions.

tobybul · #36 03-14-2008, 10:45 PM

thanks, P. I will try that tomorrow. took a pic from the top... not really much room to work with allen bolt... too close to firewall. best from bottom.

bgkast · #37 03-14-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I like my method of a small piece of allen key (about 1" long) + an open end wrench of the correct size....with a long pipe over it for leverage. Worked great on that upper bolt with almost no room to reach it in there. Lower bolt I used the allen key + pipe or wrench.

No need to loosen the tranny or use extensions.

That's the way to do it. I was trying to pull the starter on a NA 300D and there was not enough room behind the top allen bolt to get a ratchet with an allen socket on there. Funny, I did not have any problems when I did the job on my 240D with a 617 in it.

Why not replace the top allen head bolt with a standard hex head? It seems that it would make things much easier.

barry123400 · #38 03-14-2008, 11:39 PM

One clarification here. The 116 and 126 are easer to do than the 123s except the 240ds. I have not done one of them but understand there is more room.

pawoSD · #39 03-15-2008, 02:17 AM

No kidding, I changed out the starter on my dad's W126 in about an hour. The 300D took me about 6-7 hours after I finally figured out how to get the thing out! (and disassembled half the engine compartment!)

Ironically, I've had my car the longest (coming up on 5 years) and I've driven the farthest....and my starter is still going strong with no issues or oddities at all!

My dad's 300SD starter failed after about 3 years of ownership.....the 300D's died after 7-8 months.

#40 03-15-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

No kidding, I changed out the starter on my dad's W126 in about an hour. The 300D took me about 6-7 hours after I finally figured out how to get the thing out! (and disassembled half the engine compartment!)

That's why you want to take it out from the bottom, with a lift.

tobybul · #41 03-15-2008, 01:04 PM

got the lower bolt loosened but top won't budge - not yet anyway....

used a short L-shaped allen wrench with a 1/2 inch black pipe inserted as a breaker. slow but sure.....

(just could not budge it with all the 1/2" extensions)

bgkast · #42 03-15-2008, 01:09 PM

Half the battle seems to be getting the wrench to the bolt, so at least you have got that. Now all it takes is muscle!

Maybe it's the non-stock exhaust in my 240D/617 but I changed out the starter in it in about 1 hour with all 4 wheels on the ground.

Does anybody see a problem with replacing the top bolt with a hex-head to make this process easier?

tobybul · #43 03-15-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

....Does anybody see a problem with replacing the top bolt with a hex-head to make this process easier?

I was thinking the same thing... but I was wondering if a hex would be any better. If I do it, I'm thinking it should be a hex with a tall head so the socket can have a good grip in case it has to be removed again.

I was actually thinking that MB used allens since they think its best for getting a good hold on the bolt.

I usually go to NAPA to get high grade replacement bolts. Does anyone use any other source?

barry123400 · #44 03-16-2008, 01:59 AM

The top starter bolt when tight tends to give a large snap when it breaks loose. It does not start to move in a gradual fashion.
I had to use a three foot extension on my bar to get it while working in my pit. Could have been worse if tried on the ground. I was just about to stop and heat the bellhousing with my torch in the area of the bolt when it let go. I also picked through my metric allen socket sets to locate the ten mm one with the least wear and tear.
I did not want to strip the head out under any situation or contribute to the possibility of it happening. The only easy way if stripped I could see would have been to cut the head off with something like a dremel tool or simular tool a little larger perhaps. This could be done from under the hood in my opinion. Drilling a hole in the firewall for access is a poor alternative ideal because of the location on it. Just after the hump enterance curve I estimated.
I suspect the starter bolts are made of very hard material by the way. They seem to take a lot if reasonable allen condition and full insertion of the allen is accomplished.
The few times I have heard of them stripping out internally might have been a rust issue or the allen key not staying bottomed out in the bolt. Or even the bolt head not being totally cleaned out. Or a combination of them. If you still find it too tight to budge with your settup consider having a friend play a propane torch right on the starter ear where the bolt is. It is not acetelene and oxygen grade heat but a little heat goes a long ways sometimes. Protect anything burnable in that area if there before heating.
Living up here in the real rustbelt you get used to breaking fasteners. You also learn many tricks to avoid it when possible. It is just considered part of the job and expected when a fastener breaks. People have different ways to extract the remains one way or another.
Availability of high heat is an absolute necessity if you do not want to spend endless time extracting the remains. One can almost tell if a fastener is going to loosen up or not after awhile in advance. This is more an art form than a science. Usually mercedes fasteners are a preffered type to deal with. Without heat available here you basically are wasting your time when trying to service many items on the local cars.

tobybul · #45 03-19-2008, 12:03 PM

I am having real difficulty with the top bolt

. I got the bottom bolt off and its in pretty good shape.) I am using an L-shape allen wrench as suggested by pawSD which is what helped get the bottom bolt loose. As you can see, I am taking my time on this since I am waiting for my new intake gasket to arrive.

I don't like using socket extension, etc anymore on the top one as I noticed it gets cocked when I twist and may damaged the allen head.

I tried heating the ear of the starter but probably not enough. I may have to use my mapp torch instead. I think this is the 1st time this starter is being replaced.

Also ordered a couple of new allen bolts from the dealer just to play it safe. I'll get it off one of these days. I'm thinking of applying an anti-seize compound on the bolt when I put the new starter back on.

Maybe, diesel fuel prices will be below $4 when I'm done