Blah, blah, blah, K&N's suck, blah, blah, blah. Whatever. I run them on two vehicles and have never had a problem. I know of the supposed issue and the negative press. I make no claim of increased performance, etc. I only did it on the MB as I got tired of replacing filter mounts and brackets and listening to the rattle. Oil analysis every other change indicates there is NO increase silica, or any other debris and all is well. Good enough for me. Given how many miles I actually drive the MB it will rust out long before the supposed "damage" from the K&N is an issue. The work truck just hit 252K, K&N since 120K. No issues.

RT

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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

And M-B would never tell you that the transmission was filled-for-life, if it really was ever necessary to change the fluid. Correct?

The above means that Chrysler has determined that use of the K&N filter will not cause engine failure during the warranty period.

I'm middle of the road. K&N lets thru more smaller particles- ie dirt. How it hurts the engine is not proven. Does it hurt according to conventional logic? yes. Does it hurt according to testing? Maybe. Does it hurt the engine so much that you will have major or minor engine problems over time? Well yes.... when will those problems occur... sooner than the rest of your car fails? (tranny, body, interior etc) ---that is not proven. Most marine diesel engines from 800-2400 hp have oiled filters- however there are is little dust on the water compared to land. Use at your own risk.

Tada! Somebody figured it out already!

I agree with Brian, that is a completely incorrect statement. It is the opposite of what you stated. Anyone who HAS seen a substantial increase in performance and fuel mileage in a 617 turbo after installing a K&N filter DOES NOT have a properly tuned engine.

Correct! I have been selling K&N filters for almost 15 years and seen some people do some really retarded stuff to them. The holes in the cotton are of a certain size as to facilitate the use of the oil that is designed for it that closes the holes in the filter down to the correct micron size. If you clean it with the wrong stuff you will damage the element. If you use the wrong oil it will not function correctly. DO IT RIGHT! Buy the filtercharger kit and READ THE DIRECTIONS!

In addition, if you have replaced the stock "cold air intake" with a K&N cone type filter you are now sucking in HOT air from inside the engine compartment. Hotter air is less dense. Less dense air will provide lower performance, aside from the argument about the particulate size. This application will not be an improvement.

All this has become too theoretical for me. At the one place where I worked we would mark the top of the pistons with a number to match the liner and cylinder that they were to go into with a Black felt marker. One of the “theoretical” types pointed out that the Black inked felt marker number on the top of the piston was going to absorb more heat because it was black and things colored black absorb more heat. Sounds bad; the black part of the piston absorbing more heat than the other parts. While everyone was dazed by this thought someone spoke up that the whole top of the piston gets black from combustion and we all able to breathed easier.

I do not believe that K&N filters if used correctly are going to damage my engine.
I also do not believe that having the air inlet drawing less dense air from the engine compartment is going to make any difference in the normal use of the car (after all if you drive in the desert it can be 120 degrees F and the car runs OK). Who knows maybe the extra hot air drawn from the engine compartment helps combustion in older engines. Not to mention that when the turbo compresses the air the act of compression raises the inlet air temp a little also.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

409 cleaner is fine, tranny fluid is fine, but I do use their own oil.

BTW, I race a 532 hp car. K&N's DO NOT enhance performance. Nothing will dyno better than a fresh PAPER element, AC Delco preferably, although WIX are good. Having said that, with a vitnage 3X2 intake on that engine now, it wears a K&N.

The reason to use K&N is for the reuseable element. Great idea for a daily driver you put a ton of miles on. I use it on the 500 hp 7200 rpm big block since a paper element for the 3X2 intake is not available. I'll buy one for my Tahoe and my Benz, as I expect to get ALOT more miles out ofthem, and I'm not looking for every last lbs ft of torque.

But then again, if you repalce a clogged paper filter with a K&N , it'll seem like a great filter. Just like guys put an MSD ignition on their gasser and claim its so much better; yeah, only becuase the original ignition wasnt at 100%.

but I still use them. I'll buy the Benz one first, as those paper filters are $12-14, whereas the Tahoe one is only $5.Fine air filters.

Your logic is flawed. Hot air intake is much worse. At 120* ambient temperature the air will be 288*f after the turbo has compressed it to 12psi. At 180* behind the radiator (the air it will be taking in) the air will be 366*f at 12psi out of the turbo. 80*f temperature difference is a insignificant amount. It can mean the difference between running at a 1250*f safe exhaust temperature and moving into the 1300*f danger zone as well as much worse performance since air at 366*f will not be very dense.

How is it possible for a turboed Mercedes to survive in somplace like Saudi or the other Middle East countries in their ambient temps?
I guess Flawed describes me as I have not even discovered all of them yet!!! It is nice to know that there is still undescovered territory to investigate! Logical; not all the time.
My logic is easy to test. Drive your car around and watch the temp gauge. Remove the part of you air intake system (snorkel?) that is above the radiator and connects to the air filter. Drive your car and see if your temp guage rises or your car runs worse. If the temp. dose not go up it means at the very least the cooling system is able to compensate for the little bit of extra heat sucked in from the under the hood air. And I bet you will not be able to feel any differance in performance.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

You can burn valves and have no noticable increase in engine temp. Exhaust Gas Temps are measured in the exhaust system, not the coolant temp guage. Your test would be inconclusive.

Cold air is denser, and thus provides better mixing for fuel/air resulting in better combustion. The N/A carb equipped gassers had "hot" air intake to help with the evaporation of gasoline in the intake. Air that was too cold made the engine run too rich, until it was warmed up.

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RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

I disagree. Ask anyone who has driven after a cool rain and they will tell you how much more "peppier" it feels than on a normal day.

Which explains why many early g@ssers had the intake contacting the exhaust manifold.

The point I was trying to make was is that you can drive your car. Remove or un-hook that wrinkled flexable tube going to the air filter (I have a fed car) and drive it and find out. I have never noticed any differance in performance on a gas or diesel cars. I do not have the stock filter set up on my Volvo diesel and the air filter is under the hood and behind and to the side of the radiator.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

That would be wrong as well.

This is getting to be a lot of fun!
cold dense air + fuel = better combustion, OK.
Better combustion = higher exhaust gas temps.
Higher exhaust gas temps can damage exhaust valves.

Which will produce the lowest exhaust gas temperature after combustion is over with? The hot less dense are from the engine compartment going into the intake system or cold denser air? Myself, I don't know and I do not think that for practical purposes of every day driving it matters.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel