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  #46  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:19 PM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Better combustion = higher exhaust gas temps.
That is wrong as well. Better combustion burns cooler.

Quote:
Which will produce the lowest exhaust gas temperature after combustion is over with? The hot less dense are from the engine compartment going into the intake system or cold denser air?
The cold air.

Quote:
Myself, I don't know and I do not think that for practical purposes of every day driving it matters.
It does matter because hotter combustion results in more wasted heat going into the exhaust and cooling system rather than being converted into mechanical energy.
  #47  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:22 PM
rrgrassi's Avatar
mmmmmm Diesel...
 
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Incomplete combustion is what causes issues. Gassers are the easiest example, due to backfire through the intake or after fire through the exhaust.

A properly tuned and adjusted engine will not have EGT issues. Diesel or gasser. IF you modify one thing, you then need to find out what that mod changed down the line as well.
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Last edited by rrgrassi; 02-22-2008 at 03:00 PM.
  #48  
Old 02-09-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm


In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.


Then why do you bother using an air filter at all?
Interesting comment on not using an air filter. I usually sit on the sidelines and read. BTW, I am a marine diesel mechanic employed at the largest shipyard on Cape Cod Mass. I also worked for Milton Caterpillar for 12 years prior to taking a job closer to home.The MTU V-12 that is in my Wesmac is a
$100,000 marine diesel that guess what? Comes with a K&N filter mated with a Walker Airsep crankcase management system.
Filters require at least 25 hours of run time for them to become efficient, they require particulate matter to impregnate the filter to attain efficiency.
Cat, Cummins, Detroit(both 2cycle and 4 cycle models), Yanmar, MAN, John Deere etc all come with K&N filter as OEM equipment on both on their marine, industrial, long haul trucks, power generation and any other applications.
Just my 2 cents.
There is a whole world out there beyond your beloved 617.952 engine.
Also, I am resisting making a really sarcastic remark about your "helpful" comments.
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Last edited by Brian Carlton; 02-09-2008 at 12:24 PM.
  #49  
Old 02-09-2008, 02:42 PM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod View Post
Cat, Cummins, Detroit(both 2cycle and 4 cycle models)... all come with K&N filter as OEM equipment on both on their ... long haul trucks...
I have yet to see one on an OEM application. Every single semi I've come across comes with a paper filter OEM.

Quote:
Also, I am resisting making a really sarcastic remark about your "helpful" comments.
Please, continue to do so. Most people that do not end up posting incorrect information anyways.
  #50  
Old 02-09-2008, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
Interesting comment on not using an air filter. I usually sit on the sidelines and read. BTW, I am a marine diesel mechanic employed at the largest shipyard on Cape Cod Mass. I also worked for Milton Caterpillar for 12 years prior to taking a job closer to home.The MTU V-12 that is in my Wesmac is a
$100,000 marine diesel that guess what?
No new MTU V12 costs 100K- try a bit higher- much higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
Comes with a K&N filter mated with a Walker Airsep crankcase management system.
Filters require at least 25 hours of run time for them to become efficient, they require particulate matter to impregnate the filter to attain efficiency.
Cat, Cummins, Detroit(both 2cycle and 4 cycle models), Yanmar, MAN, John Deere etc all come with K&N filter as OEM equipment on both on their marine, industrial, long haul trucks, power generation and any other applications.
Not much dust on the ocean... and not all MAN/MTU/CAT'S come with oiled gauze filters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;

Just my 2 cents.
There is a whole world out there beyond your beloved 617.952 engine.
Also, I am resisting making a really sarcastic remark about your "helpful" comments.
And more than a few of us live in that world outside the 617-95X.
  #51  
Old 02-09-2008, 07:33 PM
I'm thinkin, I'm thinkin.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I bought a K&N filter for my car 10 months ago and am finally getting around to washing it. The K&N stock cleaning fluid has a familiar smell to it but I cannot remember fimiliar to what? I was wondering what else can be used to safely wash their filters. I was thinking something like Simple Green. I would like to know what other K&N filter users are using to clean their filters?
That familiar smell is SPRAY NINE.. Those of us old enough to have had one 20 years ago will remember that before K&N started selling the Recharge Kit, they simply sold the oil and SPRAY NINE was the recommended cleaner.
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  #52  
Old 02-09-2008, 08:29 PM
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never heard of Spray Nine... is that a local spray?
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  #53  
Old 02-09-2008, 08:49 PM
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Saw it every where back in Jersey - auto part stores, chain stores,etc.

http://www.spraynine.com/
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  #54  
Old 02-09-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvisorGuy View Post
Saw it every where back in Jersey - auto part stores, chain stores,etc.

http://www.spraynine.com/
widely used in the marine world
  #55  
Old 02-09-2008, 09:42 PM
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Glad to know that my K&N filters won't spread the Avian Flu, Norwalk Virus and a bunch of other bad germs! I'll have the most healthy oil filter made . . . LMAO . . .

Sorry couldn't resist!
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Last edited by JimF; 02-10-2008 at 04:11 PM.
  #56  
Old 02-10-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
No new MTU V12 costs 100K- try a bit higher- much higher. Not much dust on the ocean... and not all MAN/MTU/CAT'S come with oiled gauze filters.

And more than a few of us live in that world outside the 617-95X.
I appreciate your feedback. Fortunately in my case, the shipyard I work at (we also perform Hatteras Warranty, I recently replaced a Cat C-32 Acert that Gregory Poole had installed a number of whose engines have been delivered with bad crankshafts) is an authorized MTU dealer and I was able to purchase the reman-engine at dealer cost.
Perhaps you could enlighten me with your "internet aquired mechanical expertise" and educate me since I only have 20 years of experience in the field.
I am currently rebuilding a Man R-6 that lost the second cylinder due to a failed injector, care to chime on your last major overhaul?
I can't wait to forward this email to my boss, you guys are too funny.
BTW, I was trained at the marine factory school for 4 weeks in Germany at MTU Fredrichshafen in 2003.
I await a list of your professional credentials and accomplishments.
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  #57  
Old 02-10-2008, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
I appreciate your feedback. Fortunately in my case, the shipyard I work at (we also perform Hatteras Warranty, I recently replaced a Cat C-32 Acert that Gregory Poole had installed a number of whose engines have been delivered with bad crankshafts) is an authorized MTU dealer and I was able to purchase the reman-engine at dealer cost.
Not a new one as I said. Can anyone buy a "reman" for less than a new engine? of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
Perhaps you could enlighten me with your "internet aquired mechanical expertise" and educate me since I only have 20 years of experience in the field.
I've been in the marine field for the last 20 years also. Here's a pic of me while I worked for Viking Yachts as a mechanic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
I am currently rebuilding a Man R-6 that lost the second cylinder due to a failed injector, care to chime on your last major overhaul?
My current boat's port main 16-92 was rebuilt two years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
I can't wait to forward this email to my boss, you guys are too funny.
Go ahead and forward it. Include this post. Your condescending tone will impress no one of quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequod;
BTW, I was trained at the marine factory school for 4 weeks in Germany at MTU Fredrichshafen in 2003.
I await a list of your professional credentials and accomplishments.
I've worked and lived both on land and onboard as a engineer/captain/mechanic/crew member in Panama, Palau, Midway Atoll, The Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands, Guam, the Marshall Islands, Costa Rica, St. Thomas, South Florida, New York and Florida.
Oiled gauze filters are widely used on marine diesels from 800-2400 HP. Not all of them come stock with oiled gauze filters, however. The new commonrail 1550 MAN's for example do not, and some older MAN's as well did not. You with your experience certainly ought to know this. The marine environment is quite different than what you find on/off road. I don't believe this MTU has an oiled gauze filter.

This forum has a polite tone and gentlemen's line. I encourage you to adhere to it.

Last edited by MTUpower; 02-12-2008 at 06:36 PM.
  #58  
Old 02-22-2008, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Troll all you want and ignore the proven tests then. You're on your closed-minded own, nothing will crack such a thick skull.

Beyond the fact that K&N passes more dirt, it will have ZERO hp gain on the OM61x and OM60x engines. They are completely mechanical and will not gain power from increased airflow. The stock air filter setups for both the OM61x and OM60x flow very well and are not a restriction.
I guess I’m just “thick skulled” enough not to rely on the opinion of a twenty two year old know it all with no professional mechanical credentials at all.

This thread started as a request for information on how to clean a K&N filter and you pipe up with such unsupported words of wisdom like “you might as well not use an air filter at all”.

I asked for information from anyone who has seen internal engine damage caused by using K&N filters and you post that flow chart that has been seen here many times. Unless you saw or participated in that test, you can’t hold that out as first hand information.

But I believe that chart. I believe that K&N filters don’t filter as well as some others but in all my years as a certified master engine machinist I have never seen or heard of internal engine damage caused by using a K&N filter, even in some of the worst conditions of dust, sand, and dirty city air. I have not seen any increase in fuel economy or power... someone else must have made those claims.

This is a great forum here. There are more certified master mechanics here than any other place I know about. Some of us are also certified master engine machinists in both gas and diesel engines. I believe that all the moderators here are certified masters with a great deal of knowledge from their own first hand experience. We also have a large number of members that work in other industries or are retired with experience on their cars and a lot of common sense. Then we have you “posting Queens” that only parrot what they have read somewhere and want the forum members to believe that you are some kind of expert.

Wouldn’t you be happier over on BenzWorld with 240Joe? Too many people here that will call your bluff.

In a car that doesn’t have a hot wire MAF, the K&N’s seem to be adequate.
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  #59  
Old 02-22-2008, 03:10 PM
rrgrassi's Avatar
mmmmmm Diesel...
 
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I have no idea what the 2005 Dodge Ram P/U with the Hemi uses for a MAF, but I can say my brother owns one and decided to fall for the K&N hype. He religiously maintained that filter, until the truck conked out on a drive to Austin, TX from Dallas.

The plumbing after the filter was full of fine, gritty dust, blocking the MAF sensor.

Needless to say, the factory paper setup was re-installed.

Personally, if I ran a dirt track modified, stocker, or sprinter, I would use a K&N setup, since it is short lived, and the track is watered down to prevent dust. On daily drivers, I would stick with the factory set up.
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06 VW Jetta TDI 210K miles

03 VW Golf TDI 5 speed 372K Miles

RIP--Lost in fire...82 300D 322K was My Daily Driver-On the search for a w126 now...

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 350K
  #60  
Old 02-22-2008, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
I understand "first hand information." It's often biased heavily by the desires of the observer, and completely unscientific. I think that holds here too.

Completely unscientific??????
First hand information is the only form accepted by courts and scientific studies because it's based on observed facts, not on hearsay. Does this mean that you believe everything you read?
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