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To convert or to no convert...
Hello folks! It nice to be back in the forums! I was away for a while because my benz was at the paint shop (I rearended my dad's truck ) and to be honest with you, I felt sad reading and posting in the forums without my car being around.
Anyway, I've been doing some research and it seems there are huge differences between the 617 NA and the 617 turbo, in terms of internal components. After seeing a 617 NA and a 617 torn apart side by side, I first noticed the oil squirters. I've heard the turbo internals are hardened, but at sight, they are the same as the NA. So here go the questions: Besides the squirters, are the engine blocks the same? Seat diameters, oil pump, etc? Are the crankshafts the same? The camshafts? Are the engine heads the same? Valves? I know some will state that is easier to change the whole engine, however I have access to some nice used pistons and conn rods from a turbo engine and the guy is willing to accept my NA parts in trade. My block was overhauled about 80k Km ago, so it has everything quite new including the sleeves. Considering this and the sentimental value the engine has (my first diesel), I'd like to keep my block... I can do the job of replacing the rods and the pistons... but I don't feel like removing the head... Also I can tapper the oil passage to install the oil squirters... Any thoughts on this? Thanks for you advice guys!
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1982 W123 300D NA Euro, 300K Miles, 4-speed manual, 3.46 rear diff, early W126 front brakes, Penta rims with 205/60R15 FH900's, custom fitted (by me) audio system, more to come into the money pit... Soon to be installed: Bilstein HD, R107 front discs and 4-piston calipers, HD Suspension springs, wagon front swaybar. |
#2
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Sodium-filled valves.
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"Buster" in the '95 Our all-Diesel family 1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car 2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022) Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762 "Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz." -- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970 |
#3
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I would rather poke needles in my eye than mess with a nice euro car, epically with on 80 K on a rebuild, I urge you too forget about trying too convert it to a turbo. NOT a good idea.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#4
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What do you think about this other option?
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1982 W123 300D NA Euro, 300K Miles, 4-speed manual, 3.46 rear diff, early W126 front brakes, Penta rims with 205/60R15 FH900's, custom fitted (by me) audio system, more to come into the money pit... Soon to be installed: Bilstein HD, R107 front discs and 4-piston calipers, HD Suspension springs, wagon front swaybar. |
#5
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I think in the long run you would be better trying to find a trubo engine and putting that in your car rather than cobble together and NA and turbo setup into a turbo engine. The valves are different in the two, they have different part numbers, although I don't know how they differ.
I think a tranmission and diff. swap would be a better way to go. And if you do that and then one day come across a good turbo engine you can still plop it in and be ready to go.
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Andrew '04 Jetta TDI Wagon '82 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold '77 300D ~ Sold
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#6
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I want one of those 5 speeds...
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RRGrassi 70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car 13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete. 91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K 90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K |
#7
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OR, spend nearly the same amount of money and find an entire 300 turbo diesel...
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1982 240 D, 308,000 - 321,127 miles (sold) 1982 300 TD,166,500 - 226,000 miles 1998 E 320, 120,000 - 144,000 miles 2005 C 230 K, 26,000 - 77,000 miles (sold) |
#8
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#9
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Well, changing the whole car would be ok, but I'm not getting rid of my benz... That would feel like getting rid of a friend...
Also, down here, these old benz go for over $4k-5$k so it's not worth the money... Maybe if at some point I find a crashed w123 with a good turbo engine I might consider doing an engine swap and maybe selling the NA engine. One thing that is keeping me reluctant to do this is that NA engine feel more "juicy" off the line than a turbo engine. Why could this be? Camshaft profile? Pump timing?
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1982 W123 300D NA Euro, 300K Miles, 4-speed manual, 3.46 rear diff, early W126 front brakes, Penta rims with 205/60R15 FH900's, custom fitted (by me) audio system, more to come into the money pit... Soon to be installed: Bilstein HD, R107 front discs and 4-piston calipers, HD Suspension springs, wagon front swaybar. |
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#11
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The head is the same but not the cam.....the euro cam is different from the US na motor and the turbo motor ....if you put a US na motor from the early 80s next to a euro NA motor from 82 or later they are VERY different besides the pump....thats why they are peppy not JUST because of the rear end....its the cam.....sadly though you cant use it on the turbo motor.
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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben? |
#12
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and as said before just get a complete turbo motor.
the pistons are different
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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben? |
#13
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Post some documentation that shows they have different lobe profiles. Last edited by ForcedInduction; 02-14-2008 at 03:46 PM. |
#14
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Great piece of information Forced! Thanks.
So, assuming I'll change my engine at some point and I'll do some work in the M pump I have in the NA engine (I've got 6.5 mm elements from a truck engine) to install it in a turbo engine, will my gearbox stand the power of a tweaked pump? I already have a disassembled M pump and I'm pretty sure how to use the stop lever to limit the rack movement and install an actuator to use as an ALDA. I haven't yet figured how to adjust the fuel delivery from the outside of the pump, like in Myna pumps... Bottom line, if I manage to make the pump capable to handle something around 175 HP, will the gearbox stand that figure?
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1982 W123 300D NA Euro, 300K Miles, 4-speed manual, 3.46 rear diff, early W126 front brakes, Penta rims with 205/60R15 FH900's, custom fitted (by me) audio system, more to come into the money pit... Soon to be installed: Bilstein HD, R107 front discs and 4-piston calipers, HD Suspension springs, wagon front swaybar. |
#15
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The gearbox can take it, it takes everything I throw at mine.
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