MB gassers vs. diesels - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 02-17-2008, 03:34 PM

I was interesed if anyone has a idea on how the two on any give series might compare as to longevity. Are they pretty much 6 of one & 1/2 dozen of the other? Like just personal preference diesel fever vs. the gasoline MB's. I just had a certified indy MB tech. tell me he works on lots of gasser upwards of 350K.

jkoebel · #2 02-17-2008, 03:38 PM

I've only seen W124 or later gassers, never a 123 gasser, and very rarely at that a W124. Versus tons of W123, W116, and earlier diesels.

Just observation, unscientific, but who knows.

pawoSD · #3 02-17-2008, 03:40 PM

All of the engines will last just about the same amount of time/miles. But the gasser engines need extra maintenance when compared to the diesels. They are also a bit more complex (electronic fuel injection system and electric fuel pumps....idle controls....valves.....etc etc...) so in that regard there's more to go wrong/wear out. If well maintained they're probably equally reliable. The biggest downside to the gassers is the fuel consumption. Anything bigger than a 300SE Inline 6 or the 380 V8 will be a thirsty beast. The two I mentioned are relatively close to the diesels in overall consumption, when you factor in that diesel is 30-40 cents more per gallon than premium (which most MB gassers require) its about the same to run those. Its all personal preference. If I was to buy another W126 to add to my fleet I'd probably consider a 300SEL or 300SE....or even a bigger one (I'd just drive it less

)

TimFreeh · #4 02-17-2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkoebel

I've only seen W124 or later gassers, never a 123 gasser, and very rarely at that a W124. Versus tons of W123, W116, and earlier diesels.

Just observation, unscientific, but who knows.

In the mid 1980's over 80% of the cars Mercedes sold in the USA were Diesel powered - this is why you see so many Diesel W123, W126 and W116 cars.

I've driven primarily Diesels for the better part of two decades but lately I've been replacing my Diesels with gas powered cars when its time to upgrade - I don't think there is any longevity benefit and with Diesel selling for 20-40 cents per gallon more than premium the economy benefits are mighty small.

TimFreeh · #5 02-17-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Anything bigger than a 300SE Inline 6 or the 380 V8 will be a thirsty beast.

The newer M112/M113 and even the M119 engines are amazingly fuel efficient. Foe example I owned a CLK320 that would routinely deliver 30 MPG on the highway and a 400E that would get 27-28 on the highway.

Both of the above cars would match or exceed the "economy" of a Diesel powered W123 in cruising mode - both have about twice the horsepower capability for driving fun.

Hatterasguy · #6 02-17-2008, 05:40 PM

Well back in the days of carb's their was an advantage. Most engines were tired at 100k miles and ready for the scrap yard well before 200k. Where as you can expect 300k-400k out of a similer vintage diesel say a 617 before having to open it up. These days modern injection is so good that any gas engine given proper maintenance should be good for 300k miles, usualy the car will fall apart before the engine gives up. Just look at the oil, after 3k miles in my moms Toyota still looks new! New cars burn clean.

As for MB gas engines yeah they should last as long as any of the diesels. MB knows how to build an engine, the M119 V8 for example is an amazing power plant. I don't think you could drive enough to actualy wear one out.

Compared to our old cars, fuel economy is excellent. A new E350 will get about the same mileage as my SDL, and the engine puts out twice the power in a car that weighs more.

Part of the reason you see more high mileage diesels is because the of the people who buy them. If you drive a lot the diesel option looks pretty good, so high mileage drivers tend to buy them.

#7 02-17-2008, 06:20 PM

You guy's are just right on target with what the Mercedes Benz technician was telling me. The longevity issue, the price of fuel today, and the performance issues. He was telling me that today it is not quite like it was back then when they ruled. So, with that he was saying don't be afraid of the gasser, but who know the way the world is spinning. It might be a whole new kind of a green issue next week!

bustedbenz · #8 02-17-2008, 06:30 PM

I still prefer the diesel for simplicity. Less complex parts means less parts that wear out easily, and less computerized systems means less systems that will become inoperable after the parts supply runs out.

pawoSD · #9 02-18-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

I still prefer the diesel for simplicity. Less complex parts means less parts that wear out easily, and less computerized systems means less systems that will become inoperable after the parts supply runs out.

Exactly....thats my motto too. I have a K-Jetronic injection computer that I pulled from a euro 500SEL if anyone would like to buy it. (thought I'd throw that plug in here

) I have 0 use for it but figured its valuable to the right person.

I'd probably be perfectly happy if I had a gasser W126....but for daily driving it'd have to be one of the two smaller engines as I'd never be able to afford to feed a 420/500/560....or maybe I'd minimize my driving more....and it'd save me $$...who knows.

In the end I prefer diesel. They're just more awesome.

Caduceus · #10 02-18-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

I still prefer the diesel for simplicity. Less complex parts means less parts that wear out easily, and less computerized systems means less systems that will become inoperable after the parts supply runs out.

I used to think the same thing but now there's practically just as many electronic systems in the new bluetec as any mb gasser. I was thinking about a new 08 bluetec but for the same price I can get a e3504m, the 12c/l difference in diesel over premium factors in too, but really the gasser is faster, awd, and will get about the same real in city mileage anyways.

Bajaman · #11 02-18-2008, 09:05 AM

Truth is, gassers are becoming more diesel like. Just went to the chicago auto show this weekend. Got a close look at the internals of the VW direct injected gasser engine. I didn't get a hold of too many detailed specs, but I'm assuming that the compression ratio probably went up as a result of being DI. The mileage specs were still not as good as the TDI though. Point is, gassers are moving toward a diesel like cycle to improve efficiency. I think the time will come that you could run an engine on either fuel (much better than the old continental multi-fuel engine).
bb

JimFreeh · #12 02-18-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

In the mid 1980's over 80% of the cars Mercedes sold in the USA were Diesel powered - this is why you see so many Diesel W123, W126 and W116 cars.

I've driven primarily Diesels for the better part of two decades but lately I've been replacing my Diesels with gas powered cars when its time to upgrade - I don't think there is any longevity benefit and with Diesel selling for 20-40 cents per gallon more than premium the economy benefits are mighty small.

Ditto. As my cousin is doing, I'm also slowly replacing my diesels with gas cars.

It boils down to availability, cost, and longevity.

When I finally replaced the 87 300TD wagon, there WAS no equivalent diesel to search for. If I wanted a wagon (which my wife insists on), I could either pick a nice W124 or move into the W210 series, both gassers. Eventually, I found a superb 95 W124 wagon, and It gets close to the diesel hiway mileage. Less in town, but the cost of fuel mitigates the mileage adavantage.

Looking at the OM603, it has lots of electronic enhancements, and this trend continues for the newer cars.

Hard to justify the diesel for the newer cars.

Now, my Dodge-Cummins is another matter....

Jim

Hatterasguy · #13 02-18-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caduceus

I used to think the same thing but now there's practically just as many electronic systems in the new bluetec as any mb gasser. I was thinking about a new 08 bluetec but for the same price I can get a e3504m, the 12c/l difference in diesel over premium factors in too, but really the gasser is faster, awd, and will get about the same real in city mileage anyways.

No the CDI probably does return about 10mpg better. But you can't get them with AWD.

bustedbenz · #14 02-18-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caduceus

I used to think the same thing but now there's practically just as many electronic systems in the new bluetec as any mb gasser. I was thinking about a new 08 bluetec but for the same price I can get a e3504m, the 12c/l difference in diesel over premium factors in too, but really the gasser is faster, awd, and will get about the same real in city mileage anyways.

I guess I cut my shopping off well before current model-years. Sorry for the confusion - those silly Bluetec things are every bit as electronically complicated as their gasoline counterparts.... which is why I wasn't really shopping for one anyway. When you get into 2000 and newer, certainly, maybe even a little earlier... there really isn't much of a difference and the fuel price does start to become a factor.

pawoSD · #15 02-18-2008, 11:07 AM

Yeah the cdi is rated 37 highway....quite a bit better. Plus it has the mega torque (nearly 350ft/lbs) which is awesome.

New MB's already have traction control on the rear drive....what need is there for all wheel drive unless you are regularly scaling mountain passes covered in 2 ft of snow and ice?

If I ever buy a "newer diesel" it will probably be a sprinter anyways.

With dually rear tires for extra traction and towing/payload capacity.