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-   -   Alternatives to propane injection (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/214340-alternatives-propane-injection.html)

turbobenz 02-21-2008 05:10 AM

Alternatives to propane injection
 
I was joking around the other day talking about getting more fuel in the system with propane and i said jokingly "just rig up a wd 40 can to get hit by a piece of linkage and theres your fuel!). I was thinking about that and realized, maybe it wasn't so stupid. Propane injection isn't very practical because of the fact that you have to refil the propane so i was thinking just use a high pressure electric pump of some sorts and rig up a injector into the intake manifold, and feed atomized diesel into the intake with the press of a button or something. Why not? Somone tell me why not. Im not into the idea of it being a constant thing, just an optional switch you press if your on a steep hill (assuming you have full boost (but safe, like 15psi) and an inter cooler, so you'll actually use the fuel). Just get a small hydraulic pump or something and inject high pressure diesel into the manifold. I suppose if it was easy everyone would do it, but it just seems like the perfect solution. I personally beleive this will work, and I will do it to my sd (if i can get enough pressure to turn diesel into a mist). I also beleive this would be very safe for the engine as its still diesel, your just emulating more fuel from the pump. Sort of like cheating for us people without crazy m-pumps

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobenz (Post 1769904)
i was thinking just use a high pressure electric pump of some sorts and rig up a injector into the intake manifold, and feed atomized diesel into the intake with the press of a button or something. Why not? Somone tell me why not.

Think about why it won't work. Diesel is normally injected into the compressed air and it auto-ignites. Diesel loose in the air will detonate too early from the compression heat. Propane "works" because it is a high octane fuel that does not ignite from the compression heat but from the flame of the burning Diesel.

turbobenz 02-21-2008 05:34 AM

I see. So if you did do it, it would ignite to early leading to engine failure or power lose



Lets say if im just doing an air/water intercooler setup (is it customary to increase boost a few psi too?) can i get all the fuel ill need from adjusting my injection pump (us version not m pump)

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobenz (Post 1769912)
I see. So if you did do it, it would ignite to early leading to engine failure or power loss

If it doesn't blow out the headgasket first.

Quote:

Lets say if im just doing an air/water intercooler setup (is it customary to increase boost a few psi too?) can i get all the fuel ill need from adjusting my injection pump (us version not m pump)
Increasing the boost is not necessary, pressure drop across a decent intercooler should be less than 1psi. How much extra fuel you need depends on how much power you are aiming for. The US version MW-Pump is supposedly good for 170hp.

turbobenz 02-21-2008 06:00 AM

wow, thats plenty. Im probably only aiming for a few hp. Im guessing an intercooler can add about 5 horses right? Did you dyno before and after?


So we need a high octane fuel to get past the compression stroke. What else is more available, easier to obtain and less inconvenient than propane. I'm thinking high octane gasoline. What about alcohols (like denature alcohol). I suppose you can always refill those little coleman cans (the upside down propane tank technique). Id imagine the flow rate would be very high so a torch regulator wouldn't be enough cfm. You havent by chance heard of mapp gas injections?

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobenz (Post 1769924)
Im guessing an intercooler can add about 5 horses right?

It adds 0hp. All the intercooler does is cool the air to reduce exhaust temperatures. That allows more fuel to be safely injected for longer periods of time.

Quote:

What about alcohols (like denature alcohol).
Water/Methanol injection does add power. There are a few threads on that topic.

turbobenz 02-21-2008 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction (Post 1769929)
It adds 0hp. All the intercooler does is cool the air to reduce exhaust temperatures. That allows more fuel to be safely injected for longer periods of time.

=

Id image that if your air is denser, you can get more air in the cylinders. More air, of course, is more power (with the fuel). Id imagine it would add hp and cool the egt's

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 06:16 AM

Thats the key. If you don't inject more fuel to use the extra air you will get no extra power.

turbobenz 02-21-2008 06:18 AM

Im wondering since I have the sd's future 617 sitting on the garage floor, would it be easier to mod the injection pump right now as opposed to waiting?

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 06:30 AM

The oil filter housing has to come off for access to the back of the pump, so, out of the car is definitely easier.

turbobenz 02-21-2008 06:45 AM

i searched injection pump modification, didnt find anything. Im guessing you know of 100 threads on it. Links would be very helpful. Thanks

ForcedInduction 02-21-2008 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobenz (Post 1769942)
Links would be very helpful.

http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Dee8go 02-21-2008 08:49 AM

How common is it to find diesels with propane injection?

Deni 02-21-2008 10:20 AM

I have a lpg injection in mine (car in the signature) and I haven't detonated the engine, yet.

I think I can add more propane for more power if I install a water injection. I'm short on money though, so the next move will be just maxing out my pump.

Stevo 02-21-2008 11:07 AM

I wonder what happened too the guy that was doing "hydrogen" injection on his 240D?? (:eek:boom, gone??) My son in law has a hydrogen generator under the hood of his Subaru.


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