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  #31  
Old 03-19-2008, 03:02 AM
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Btw, Hatt: on those broken door handles, if you pull them out (one screw! One connector also for the driver's side front) you will see the problem is a friction-fit roll pin. You can replace it with a sleeve and a narrow screw, with a little Loctite they never need to be touched again. You will see what I mean if you look at how the assembly works. Any decent junk box should be able to come up with the parts to fix it.

How's that old Benz odometer? The digital one on the Passat is unlikely to break ... of course, it rolls over at 300k. Oops!

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  #32  
Old 03-19-2008, 07:32 AM
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I currently have a 350sdl and 06.5 jetta tdi.

I have owned many 123s and consider them one of the best cars of all time.

You cannot compare a true gps 50mpg car to anything else right now w/ fuel at 3~4 dollars/gal.

I see many tdi's w/ over 300K miles on them and many more 123s w/ odos broken at or above that mark.

The 123s have better fit and finish by many miles, but there are no new 123s so my vote goes to the vws. Safety is hard to judge but I rank the 126 (mass wins usually) above the tdi and the tdi above a 123 (a 123 saved me and my family's lives from a redlight running broadside by a pickup).

Maintenance is actually less time consuming in the vw. Oil at 10K, timing belts at 100K and the rest a relative wash except for the valve adjustments on 617s. The vws don't 'sweat' or 'mark' so it's usually a cleaner process as well. I have never owned a manual tranny MB so I 'd say the vw tranny is easier to maintain. There seems to be a lot of grumbling from the vw owners w/ dsg when it comes to fluid change time.

The largest factor for me is driving fun. The vw (ok I had it chipped to 150hp & 250T)) will spin 1st and 2nd gears and handles like a modern car and gives me a clutch (123s w/ clutches require prayers at mergiing time IMHO).
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:11 AM
Craig
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IMHO, there is nothing wrong with the TDI, I would probably buy one for my kids to beat on if it was cheap enough. However, I would consider it completely disposable and wouldn't put any effort in preserving it. It's just a car, not as much of an appliance as a ricer, but I don't think I would lose any sleep over running one into the ground.
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
Here's a good question about the tdi's.....why are the timing belts such an issue? Are they hard on them or something?
Diesels are interference engines... if the timing belt breaks the engine is toast (think broken valves, camshaft, maybe pistons, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
Our caravan is supposed to have a 90k timing belt change interval on the 3.0 V6 mitsubishi under the hood, its coming up on 94k on the original....we're not changing it. ($700 at shop, or 3 years in the garage tearing everything apart to get to it) So....we'll see how long it lasts, when it snaps its off to the pickn'pull. It does have a rapping sound in that vicinity that developed recently....so maybe death is near....my sister only drives about 60-70 miles a week at most, and the fastest she goes is 55....so it will probably cling to life for a while yet.

Same for my lovely's Rav4, it has a "70k" timing belt change interval....it was replaced at 70k...but now it has 143k....we'll see if it holds till we sell the car.
You need to check to see if they are interference engines. Some gassers are and some aren't. If they are *not* interference engines you'll just coast to the side of the road if it breaks... if it *is* an interference engine... the same problems from a diesel will happen.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:48 AM
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Everyone needs to remember that even though we like our TDI, due to my wife's 40 mile trek to work each day, the car is assembled in MEXICO, and has a POLISH made engine in it. German design, questionable assembly.

We have not had any trouble with the TDI at this point. The first one 05.5 Jetta TDI kept my wife and step daughter safe in a 40 mph head on with a Hyundia Sonata, Both cars were totaled, but only the VW was able to open and close all doors.
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70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:13 AM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrgrassi View Post
Everyone needs to remember that even though we like our TDI, due to my wife's 40 mile trek to work each day, the car is assembled in MEXICO, and has a POLISH made engine in it. German design, questionable assembly.
Good point, but I assume this car is just transportation for you so if it works, it works. For a "real" car, i wouldn't buy anything built in north america.
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  #37  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 AM
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VW...great mileage but!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andmoon View Post
You cannot compare a true gps 50mpg car to anything else right now w/ fuel at 3~4 dollars/gal.

Prior to my 123, I had a 1990 TD (the IDI one). I owned it for one full year of pain. Nothing but pain. Yes I would smile everytime I filled up, but there was always something wrong with it.

I really haven't owned the Benz a full year yet, but so far, geez, all I really do is fill up and drive! It doesn't rattle over the railway tracks, and gets poor mileage when compared to the VW, but everything works, there's hardly any smoke (at least less than the vw) and I like to call it my little stealth bomber because everytime some idiot tailgater comes up really close I could just floor it and leave him in a cloud of smoke wondering where the hell did that old Merc go! In the vw, I'd floor it and just get the smoke

In summary, my experience shows so far that the vws are great engines, just that all the other parts around the engine tend to fail really easily

The Benz? It just keeps on ticking....and its the first car I've owned where I actually like washing it
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  #38  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:11 AM
rrgrassi's Avatar
mmmmmm Diesel...
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Good point, but I assume this car is just transportation for you so if it works, it works. For a "real" car, i wouldn't buy anything built in north america.
Yep, just transportation, but the Jetta is a much more comfy ride than the Altima it replaced, plus it gets 47-50 mpg on the highway.

My wife absolutely loves her TDI. I love my old 300D.
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RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K
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  #39  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrameow View Post

Then you will see threads like "Wouldnt it be more fun to be rich and play golf and sneer at dieselheads?" or "Why does a six pack make wrenching so much more fun?" Or "have you ever had one too many and worked on your car and tripped all over your tools and extension cords and broken anything? " Or "Does your wife secretly laugh at you?"

Yes to all the above!!!
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  #40  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:32 PM
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mmmmmm Diesel...
 
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What if you do not like golf? It's more fun to sneer at the non diesel heads. Rich and sneer at non diesel heads would be great. Just need a single winning lotto ticket...
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RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K
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  #41  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:33 PM
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They weren't designed as taxi cab engines, either.
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  #42  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeet View Post
Btw, Hatt: on those broken door handles, if you pull them out (one screw! One connector also for the driver's side front) you will see the problem is a friction-fit roll pin. You can replace it with a sleeve and a narrow screw, with a little Loctite they never need to be touched again. You will see what I mean if you look at how the assembly works. Any decent junk box should be able to come up with the parts to fix it.

How's that old Benz odometer? The digital one on the Passat is unlikely to break ... of course, it rolls over at 300k. Oops!
Thanks I'll remember that. The ODO on my Jetta is digital and is broke along with the speedo. But if I hit the radio it will work for a bit. The ODO in the MB is dead nuts as always.
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  #43  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
My lovely wants a bug/golf/jetta tdi for the high mpgs....but I insist she go with a 190d 2.2 or 2.5 diesel instead, as it will be everlastingly easier to work on and would probably break faaar less often. No timing belt! She vastly prefers automatics to manuals, and it seems auto-tdi's are hard to find/super expensive anyways. Her current Rav4, while a reliable car (currently, though its had about 5 weird issues in the 3 months she's driven it) is a death trap on wheels. I don't want to get a call someday about an accident where the car's safety let her down. In a 190d she'd be far safer. If the $$ is sufficient someday I will probably get her like a 1998 C220 or something, as she likes those also. Heck you can get a fairly low miles C220 for less than a tdi VW costs! I'll take the MB!

The Rav4's timing belt is no easier to replace than the caravan, maybe slightly, but not by much....I've got the haynes manual, and it looks like a major PITA. Shop to do it is about $750-800, So thats a no-way....especially since my wish would be to have it disappear by the end of summer....maybe it will break before then. Its a manual trans, and the manual isn't perfect anymore either at 143k, the syncros don't mesh as well, and it is finicky about shifting sometimes, especially in the cold. (has brand new M1 Syn gear oil in it...so thats not the issue) It also has the Engine light on now for a failing/failed O2 sensor....and it doesn't like getting wet (struggled to hold idle after car wash) and randomly doesn't idle properly in general (stalls) due to a faulty idle control valve, which is $200...no thanks. Its mileage is poor-to very poor for a car of its size....it only weighs 2300lbs with a 2.0 4cyl, and gets 18-21mpg. Thats it...with a manual, driven gently!!! It has no sound insulation, unless you count the dash itself and the floor mats! And it rev's to 3200 at 70mph on the freeway. Can you say "loud whiny gasser engine"...because thats what it sounds like. Though its dulled by the ROAR of the road....its 2-3x as loud as my car at the same speed, and mine has a straight pipe!

Ok, done with Rav4 rant.
That car must have been beat or something, she has only driven it for 3 months? Add another 1k to that btw, the old Rav's weighed more than that. My old 93 Camry has near 200k miles on it now and still runs like a top. I did the T belt in a few hours and it really wasn't that difficult. Around here shops charge $300-$400 to do them and make out.

You should get her a new Impala. I know someone who goes to the auctions that the dealers buy from. He was buying clean 2007-08 Impala's from company fleets for like $10k-$11k. Those still use the 3.8 with GM's 4spd, damn reliable and cheap to fix cars.

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