'electric supercharger ready' - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tompaah7503 · #1 04-03-2008, 10:04 AM

So what do you think about this?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/04/03/controlled-power-technologies-says-electric-supercharger-is-read/

Quote:

VTES can be useful for diesel engines as a near instant air supply to deliver a quick blast of torque with minimal particulate emissions, which could allow for more specific power and the downsizing of the diesel particulate filter (DPF).

Quote:

For the motorist it simply means having the economy of a small engine with the performance of a big engine.

I had the impression that electric superchargers were among the most inefficient ways of improving performance..?

#2 04-03-2008, 10:14 AM

The performance it provides will be offset by the weight of 12V batteries needed to power it.

Something like that won't really be viable until we get 42v systems.

150 watts sounds impressive until you realize its only 10.7amps at 14v.

Dee8go · #3 04-03-2008, 10:16 AM

I've never even heard of electric superchargers before. Perhaps this is why.

vstech · #4 04-03-2008, 10:22 AM

I will have to see it to believe it.
possibly an additive to an existing turbo/supercharged engine... I can see where it would give better off the line acceleration, no waiting for the turbo to spool, but I seriously doubt an electric motor can be driven off 12 volts and still have enough oomph to replace a turbo's benefits. think how much energy there is in the turbo's exhaust stream... 100 or more horsepower of heat... no way that can be built into a 12V motor... now, one of the EV 300+ volt motors... maybe.
I do think it can boost a 150HP motor's low end power up a notch or so, but above 50 or 75HP, I think it would be out done by the air requirements of the engine.

now, the Generation of power using the intake charge sounds promising... but impractical

KarTek · #5 04-03-2008, 10:25 AM

Why wouldn't you just supercharge for instant boost?

When they refer to 150W, I think that's talking about the electrical power the thing produces with it's running in "generator" mode with the turbine spinning in the intake breeze.

#6 04-03-2008, 10:33 AM

Controlled Power Technologies sounds like a no-name company since they are buying far more technology than they are making. They are basically kit-bashing technology they have purchased.

Search the patents. There are almost a dozen different patents and companies that have filed for "electric assisted turbocharging". Detroit Diesel, Holset, Garrett, etc. Its nothing new. I'd bet we'll see something from Holset or Garrett LONG before we get anything out of Controlled Power Technologies.

rrgrassi · #7 04-03-2008, 10:33 AM

EMD locomotives use a supercharger and a turbo, where the GE ones do not. That is why you see more black smoke on inital take off in a GE. I think a super charged driven off of the crank or timing chain would be better, but since our 617's were not designed for it, it would require $ome fab and part$ money.

#8 04-03-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

EMD locomotives use a supercharger and a turbo, where the GE ones do not. That is why you see more black smoke on inital take off in a GE. I think a super charged driven off of the crank or timing chain would be better, but since our 617's were not designed for it, it would require $ome fab and part$ money.

Or, you can use a VNT turbo and live with the ~1 second of lag.

rrgrassi · #9 04-03-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Or, you can use a VNT turbo and live with the ~1 second of lag.

I like that! is it a simple bolt in replacement?

#10 04-03-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

I like that! is it a simple bolt in replacement?

No way is it bolt on, but its far less complicated than trying to rig up a supercharger.

rrgrassi · #11 04-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Do you have a step by step install with parts and pricing thread?

SD Blue · #12 04-03-2008, 10:58 AM

From my gathering of the intent of the design, it is not to replace the turbocharger but to enhance it at lower engine speeds. This is solely to reduce emissions since most of it occurs at the low speed/initial acceleration point. If it eventually replaced EGR systems currently in use then it would definitely be an improvement. (note the site name: AutoBlogGreen)

lutzTD · #13 04-03-2008, 11:47 AM

the pressure rise developed by small fans is measured in "/HG. for comparison 29"/HG is atmospheric pressure or 14PSI, most small fans in the 5-6 inch range develop a max of 1-2"/hg and that is generous. So you can expect a boost of around .5-1 PSI. they are also lacking in CFM and as CFM goes up pressure will go down. this is why super chargers are so big and complicated. if the electric fans worked they would be on production cars.

vstech · #14 04-03-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

the pressure rise developed by small fans is measured in "/HG. for comparison 29"/HG is atmospheric pressure or 14PSI, most small fans in the 5-6 inch range develop a max of 1-2"/hg and that is generous. So you can expect a boost of around .5-1 PSI. they are also lacking in CFM and as CFM goes up pressure will go down. this is why super chargers are so big and complicated. if the electric fans worked they would be on production cars.

oh, I don't know, the pictures on the site appear to use gear reduction (increation?) anyway, they are driving a compressor identical to a turbocharger. so if enough amperage could be mustered I can see the fan building 3-5psi or more at a low volume like would be needed below 1500RPM... just no way it would replace a turbo... or supercharger for cruise demands...

Hatterasguy · #15 04-03-2008, 01:15 PM

Why don't they just super charge them? Volvo does that on their marine diesels. Super chargers for low end and then the turbo's kick in.

I thought the ML320CDI I drove was a torquy MF. Didn't have quite the punch of the 5.5L V8 but it sure felt like a small V8. I really don't see the need, modern enginers already produce a ton of power off the line.

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