Mobil done it again - changed Delvac-1 and Mobil-1 formulas - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DieselAddict · #31 05-01-2008, 02:37 PM

Soot and TBN are important but I think the best way to establish a drain interval is by watching the wear rate, particularly in terms of iron, lead and aluminum. As long as the wear rate is good, the soot % is secondary info. Personally I don't like to push the limits too much and I'd rather do an oil change sooner than later.

babymog · #32 05-01-2008, 02:43 PM

When I was running RedLine in my Cat, the TBN was either 12 or 14.

TBN is no longer your friend though, too much is bad now that the sulfur is lowered, it has been discussed ad nauseum on other sites.

Also, not all Amsoil oils are class IV / class V synthetics. They too started re-formulating and adding part-synthetic as well as class III synthetics to compete with the price-point of major-brand lower synthetics.

gsxr · #33 05-01-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Soot and TBN are important but I think the best way to establish a drain interval is by watching the wear rate, particularly in terms of iron, lead and aluminum. As long as the wear rate is good, the soot % is secondary info. Personally I don't like to push the limits too much and I'd rather do an oil change sooner than later.

The soot is secondary as long as the % is under 2%. When it exceeds what the oil can suspend, and the soot starts to fall out of suspension, it can cause significantly increased wear. Finding out what the soot limits of a particular oil are can be a challenge... I believe Marshall Booth had some internal contacts at Mobil, and was able to find out that Mobil-1 was ok up to 2%, and Delvac up to about 4%... although he also said Mercedes had a flat 2% limit for engines with hydraulic lifters. (I never saw any documentation on that topic, though.)

FWIW, my soot level is usually around 1% in 10kmi. I should scan one of my oil analysis reports.

gsxr · #34 05-01-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

When I was running RedLine in my Cat, the TBN was either 12 or 14. TBN is no longer your friend though, too much is bad now that the sulfur is lowered, it has been discussed ad nauseum on other sites.

Also, not all Amsoil oils are class IV / class V synthetics. They too started re-formulating and adding part-synthetic as well as class III synthetics to compete with the price-point of major-brand lower synthetics.

I think as long as TBN is not over 12-14, it should be fine, even with ULSD.

And you are correct, Amsoil is now also offering Group III products in the race to the bottom of the quality barrel and price points. I also found this little gem about M-1, which I have strongly suspected, but can't yet prove:

"Mobil 1 no longer has the "100% Synthetic" label on the bottles as they have switched to lower priced Group III base stocks. Per the FTC, you can say "Full Synthetic" without an ounce of PAO manmade synthetic base stocks. But you can't label them as 100% unless they truly are."

That does clarify the difference between "Fully" and "100%" synthetic. Buyer beware...! Red Line is looking better, but I want to talk to their tech department first. BTW, this page has a neat chart near the bottom showing the differences between Groups I - V.

Hatterasguy · #35 05-01-2008, 03:42 PM

How much does Redline cost vs D1 and Amsoil?

I may just use the 5w40 ESP since I can get it cheaper at the dealer.

pawoSD · #36 05-01-2008, 03:49 PM

I use the 5w40 Rotella Synthetic, but I also change the oil every 4k (for all our cars)....so its not an issue. $16.24 a gallon at walmart....nice and cheap. The mobil stuff was way too expensive, and even running it 5k the oil looked way too thick when I drained it, so I stopped that practice quick. My car seems to like the "fake synthetic" just fine....and it does certainly flow better at very low temps, which I am most interested in....otherwise I'd probably run 15w40 dino if I lived in a hot climate.

gsxr · #37 05-01-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

How much does Redline cost vs D1 and Amsoil? I may just use the 5w40 ESP since I can get it cheaper at the dealer.

Red Line is about $8-$9 per quart, probably best to purchase locally, due to the relatively high shipping cost. Here's link to the gallons, and a link to the quarts of 15W-40 diesel oil, at Amazon. While they do have a 5W-40 oil, it's not their primary diesel oil.

How much is the 5W-40 ESP (I assume the "Formula M") at the dealer?

gsxr · #38 05-01-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I use the 5w40 Rotella Synthetic, but I also change the oil every 4k (for all our cars)....so its not an issue. $16.24 a gallon at walmart....nice and cheap. The mobil stuff was way too expensive, and even running it 5k the oil looked way too thick when I drained it, so I stopped that practice quick. My car seems to like the "fake synthetic" just fine....and it does certainly flow better at very low temps, which I am most interested in....otherwise I'd probably run 15w40 dino if I lived in a hot climate.

Yes, the Delvac is expensive, but at $16/gallon for 4,000 miles... in 10,000 miles, that's $48/gallon. I pay ~$24/gallon for the D-1 and change at 10k, so you're paying twice as much, and spending more time under your car that could better be spent sitting in front a computer typing on some silly car forum. (kidding!) But seriously, the extended drain intervals do save $$$. I get oil analysis each time (not necessary, but I'm anal) and it shows I could easily go to 15kmi intervals if I wanted, but that would be nearly 24 months so I change at 10k anyway.

Tymbrymi · #39 05-01-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

I'm not so sure about the higher EGR rates, and soot production, in the newer engines... but I don't have any data to prove it either way. But I would expect far lower soot with the newer direct-injection diesels, at least compared to our indirect injection (OM61x / OM60x) engines.

My CDI has a factory oil change interval of 13k miles... so I'm presuming they've got the soot, etc down on the newer engines.

I don't have a 2007+ engine so I don't need the ESP, but if Europe has been using it around 2005 I'll be much more comfortable using it. Especially since I've heard, as has been mentioned, about the removal of beneficial compounds for older engines.

How often does this guy update his website? http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html If MB requires me to use a 229.95 oil, if they meet the spec I shouldn't necessarily have to worry about it going the 13k miles since it meets the spec? Haven't owned the car long enough to really get into the details yet... so this is a well timed thread!

At least my transmission fluid is an easy decision....

Its the ultra expensive MB fluid. I think its over $10 a quart.

pawoSD · #40 05-01-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Yes, the Delvac is expensive, but at $16/gallon for 4,000 miles... in 10,000 miles, that's $48/gallon. I pay ~$24/gallon for the D-1 and change at 10k, so you're paying twice as much, and spending more time under your car that could better be spent sitting in front a computer typing on some silly car forum. (kidding!) But seriously, the extended drain intervals do save $$$. I get oil analysis each time (not necessary, but I'm anal) and it shows I could easily go to 15kmi intervals if I wanted, but that would be nearly 24 months so I change at 10k anyway.

Not possible, my soot levels were too high at even 5k on Mobil 1 when I had an anlysis done. Are you doing this on a 616/617? or a 601/602/6033/606? Those engines run a lot cleaner. Mine is a 617.

And, I like changing the oil!

It only takes like 20 mins anyways.

Tymbrymi · #41 05-01-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Not possible, my soot levels were too high at even 5k on Mobil 1 when I had an anlysis done. Are you doing this on a 616/617? or a 601/602/6033/606? Those engines run a lot cleaner. Mine is a 617.

Dave is an OM60x kinda guy

pawoSD · #42 05-01-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tymbrymi

Dave is an OM60x kinda guy

Yeah I just looked at his profile and saw that.

I'm a 617 guy who is open to "trying out" a 60x.

Monomer · #43 05-01-2008, 05:06 PM

ELF/Total oil is popular around here.

at SG Imports, they're around $25/Gal.

C Sean Watts · #44 05-01-2008, 07:22 PM

Does anyone know if all this has anything to do with the removal of ZDDP?

ALSO, back in the early 1990s Mobil had a class action case with piston engine aircraft owners following damage linked to poor oil chemistry.

babymog · #45 05-01-2008, 07:25 PM

I started going to extended drain for a different reason in my CAT: 5gallons of used oil doesn't do the environment any good, even recycling it.