W124 Diesel Cluster, Diesel Specific? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

frankstallone · #1 05-08-2008, 07:51 AM

I am in the market for another cluster as mine doesn't have the reading that is suppose to be dead center on the bottom of the cluster (outside temp maybe?) and the tachometer literally just stopped on me other day.

So going through some ebay finds and I realized something, do I need a specific diesel cluster because of the glow plug light?

If so I might be able to just replace the cluster insides with a new area.

Something like this I found on eBay and these forums.

I would like to replace the whole unit as it is aged and the newer clusters have nicer lighting (not a big deal again I could replace those lights in mine too).

mkrazy1 · #2 05-08-2008, 09:16 AM

That is supposed to be the LCD Outside Temperature. Mine is out also, and from what I gather it's fairly common issue and expensive to replace. For the tach not working, did the ABS light come on also? If so, I would say the OVP (Over Voltage Protection?) is bad or going bad. This is located between the battery and firewall, behind the plastic panel.

frankstallone · #3 05-08-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkrazy1

That is supposed to be the LCD Outside Temperature. Mine is out also, and from what I gather it's fairly common issue and expensive to replace. For the tach not working, did the ABS light come on also? If so, I would say the OVP (Over Voltage Protection?) is bad or going bad. This is located between the battery and firewall, behind the plastic panel.

The ABS light is not on; I have no warning lights on I can proudly say. They all work but none come on! =D

Jeremy5848 · #4 05-08-2008, 02:48 PM

All 124s use the same LCD outside temp display. Later versions use a different connector but you can adapt if yours in the earlier version. I bought my replacement here from a guy who had some. You may be able to find another one or watch eBay. Another option is to go to your local junkyard. The LCD display comes off of the cluster with two Phillips-head screws after unplugging the connector (cut the wires and take the connector too). Any 124 will do. Finally, you can just ignore the failed display and do without it, or install an aftermarket outside temp gauge.

Gasser 124s have an "economy" (vacuum) gauge and probably have a different final drive ratio so you would have a speedo error if you swapped. Some people have looked at modifying the "economy" gauge to work as a boost gauge but I haven't seen any results yet.

I don't know if gassers use the same kind of tach or not. In any case, the problem may not be in the tach itself (which is just an analog meter) but rather in the electronics that sense engine revolutions and process the data into a signal the tach can display.

Jeremy

frankstallone · #5 05-08-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

All 124s use the same LCD outside temp display. Later versions use a different connector but you can adapt if yours in the earlier version. I bought my replacement here from a guy who had some. You may be able to find another one or watch eBay. Another option is to go to your local junkyard. The LCD display comes off of the cluster with two Phillips-head screws after unplugging the connector (cut the wires and take the connector too). Any 124 will do. Finally, you can just ignore the failed display and do without it, or install an aftermarket outside temp gauge.

Gasser 124s have an "economy" (vacuum) gauge and probably have a different final drive ratio so you would have a speedo error if you swapped. Some people have looked at modifying the "economy" gauge to work as a boost gauge but I haven't seen any results yet.

I don't know if gassers use the same kind of tach or not. In any case, the problem may not be in the tach itself (which is just an analog meter) but rather in the electronics that sense engine revolutions and process the data into a signal the tach can display.

Jeremy

Wow so I need a Diesel tach specifically is what it seems like, I cant even just buy the gauges unless they are from a diesel. Geesh!

babymog · #6 05-09-2008, 08:11 PM

I have an outside temp display, PM me if you are interested.

The tachometer might be the crank sensor, I believe that it is a higher failure rate than the tachometer, I don't know how to check though.

Where are you located? I have a cluster you could borrow to diagnose the problem if you're in Michigan.

Jeremy5848 · #7 05-09-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiz3n

Wow so I need a Diesel tach specifically is what it seems like, I cant even just buy the gauges unless they are from a diesel. Geesh!

The electronics that drive the tach are not in the cluster (I'm not sure where they are). According to the EPC, there is only one tach for all 124 cars. The part number is 124 542 05 16 ("with clock").

The body of the cluster is definitely different -- the diesels get a glow plug light, the gassers have an "O2 sensor" light. In a pinch you might be able to use the cluster from a gasser. The speedo would probably be off.

Jeremy

dieseldiehard · #8 05-10-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

The electronics that drive the tach are not in the cluster (I'm not sure where they are). According to the EPC, there is only one tach for all 124 cars. The part number is 124 542 05 16 ("with clock").

The body of the cluster is definitely different -- the diesels get a glow plug light, the gassers have an "O2 sensor" light. In a pinch you might be able to use the cluster from a gasser. The speedo would probably be off.

Jeremy

The body is the same in gassers as well as diesels, the only change is the instruments and the plastic legend strip, and it can be removed and swapped from one body to another. just grab it with needle nosed pliers and give it a tug and it will slide out.
Incidentally the later 124 bodies have much improved lighting and is a great thing to upgrade from the original 86, 87 and early instruments.
I've upgraded one and soon to start another, its worth the relatively small effort. Someone posted info on this in the past.
Also, I found the 0-160 MPH speedometers from say a 320E have the same ratio (K-factor) as the '87 diesel turbo, according to the local VDO shop (Palo Alto Speedometer) and its working in my Blue '87 but I need to have it calibrated because I have larger wheels and tires.

frankstallone · #9 05-10-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I have an outside temp display, PM me if you are interested.

The tachometer might be the crank sensor, I believe that it is a higher failure rate than the tachometer, I don't know how to check though.

Where are you located? I have a cluster you could borrow to diagnose the problem if you're in Michigan.

@Jeff - Unfortunately I live in New Jersey or I would take you up on that! I have yet to find anyone in the local area to share their wisdom with me in person. I am willing to learn and get dirty if you are out there ol' wise NJ one! haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

The electronics that drive the tach are not in the cluster (I'm not sure where they are). According to the EPC, there is only one tach for all 124 cars. The part number is 124 542 05 16 ("with clock").

The body of the cluster is definitely different -- the diesels get a glow plug light, the gassers have an "O2 sensor" light. In a pinch you might be able to use the cluster from a gasser. The speedo would probably be off.

Jeremy

@ Jeremy - Good to know the tach is the same; do you know if the speedo would work the same out of a 300D to my 300TD? P.S. Thanks for the part #!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

The body is the same in gassers as well as diesels, the only change is the instruments and the plastic legend strip, and it can be removed and swapped from one body to another. just grab it with needle nosed pliers and give it a tug and it will slide out.
Incidentally the later 124 bodies have much improved lighting and is a great thing to upgrade from the original 86, 87 and early instruments.
I've upgraded one and soon to start another, its worth the relatively small effort. Someone posted info on this in the past.
Also, I found the 0-160 MPH speedometers from say a 320E have the same ratio (K-factor) as the '87 diesel turbo, according to the local VDO shop (Palo Alto Speedometer) and its working in my Blue '87 but I need to have it calibrated because I have larger wheels and tires.

@dieseldiehard - The bottom half legend can be removed from the tach and replaced with the diesel one? That's good info!I don't know if I need a 160MPH speedo, I have never gotten my 87' over 80MPH to be honest, even with italian tune ups. I have heard and seen the better lighting in the newer 124's but I heard that you can replace the bulbs inside the one I have to get better lighting. I read an article that had part numbers for the sylvania replacements and I may go that route, unless there is better lighting in the 124 later clusters that are more than just those?

Bartman · #10 05-10-2008, 12:36 PM

Be careful changing the bulbs. The brighter bulbs will melt the prisms in cluster. I used L161 bulbs which is about twice as bright (1 candle power) than the original bulb. The more common L194 bulb is 2CP and the L168 is 3CP. The bright the bulb the hotter they get in general.
LEDs would a good option but I'm not sure if you can get them focused to the prisms. LEDs put out a lot less heat per light than incandescent bulbs so you shouldn't melt anything.

Zeitgeist · #11 05-10-2008, 12:41 PM

The newer housings represent a marked improvement with regard to lighting--well worth the investment. I've never seen a satisfactory lighting improvement that didn't include higher wattage bulbs that will probably just melt the lenses. Though, LEDs might be rigged up to function correctly [edit: see above ^^^].

Luckily all the cluster components are modular, so they can be replaced separately. The left-most gauge in the late models benefits from an improved oil level warning circuit (doesn't come on during hard left turns), and as was mentioned, the economy gauge can easily be converted to a boost meter providing relative indications of pressure (which is all you really need).

If you've never pulled the cluster, you might want to, before condemning the unit. You may just find a loose connection or other easily remedied issue.

frankstallone · #12 05-10-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeitgeist

If you've never pulled the cluster, you might want to, before condemning the unit. You may just find a loose connection or other easily remedied issue.

I have never pulled the cluster so I plan to and see if the tach is stuck, it seems like on the highway the 9 is attempting to move and just getting kicked back.

dieseldiehard · #13 05-10-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiz3n

@dieseldiehard - The bottom half legend can be removed from the tach and replaced with the diesel one? That's good info!I don't know if I need a 160MPH speedo, I have never gotten my 87' over 80MPH to be honest, even with italian tune ups. I have heard and seen the better lighting in the newer 124's but I heard that you can replace the bulbs inside the one I have to get better lighting. I read an article that had part numbers for the sylvania replacements and I may go that route, unless there is better lighting in the 124 later clusters that are more than just those?

I didn't mean the legend on the tach, I meant the (invisible until you pull it out) strip across the bottom of the cluster body!
Don;t mess with replacing bulbs with something higher wattage, that will melt the plastic. Just get a later (89-95) 124 cluster body and replace your instruments into it.
The later body has thicker lucite light pipes between the top two bulbs and the place where they shine down onto the dials of the instruments.
In removing the cluster I always raise the car and loosen the speedo cable at the transmission then lift the floormats and take the cable out of the catch it normally rides in so its looser and then you won't stretch the cable and make the hand on the speedometer jumpy.
here's a wiki on the subject:
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124InstCluster

frankstallone · #14 05-10-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseldiehard

I didn't mean the legend on the tach, I meant the (invisible until you pull it out) strip across the bottom of the cluster body!
Don;t mess with replacing bulbs with something higher wattage, that will melt the plastic. Just get a later (89-95) 124 cluster body and replace your instruments into it.
The later body has thicker lucite light pipes between the top two bulbs and the place where they shine down onto the dials of the instruments.
In removing the cluster I always raise the car and loosen the speedo cable at the transmission then lift the floormats and take the cable out of the catch it normally rides in so its looser and then you won't stretch the cable and make the hand on the speedometer jumpy.
here's a wiki on the subject:
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W124InstCluster

@dieseldiehard - I know what you mean't by the legend on the bottom, sorry to make it seem like I was referring to something else earlier.I think I am going to attempt to find another cheap W124 cluster to convert everything into but my question still remains...

Will a 300D cluster have the same Tach as the 300TD?

(P.S. Thank you for the link, I have the thread subscribed but that has better images!)

Zeitgeist · #15 05-10-2008, 03:56 PM

If the 300D tach is originally from a 124 vehicle with an OM603 or OM606 engine, they're the exact same. If the tach is from a vehicle with an OM602, then that won't work. Essentially, you're stuck with the tach from an '87 300D or a '95 E300D.