Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 08-01-2008, 12:29 PM
curlytom's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 172
TMAllison - I somewhat understand the flap by the egr - it controls the blending of exhaust gases and fresh air feeding the IM for emission purposes.
But, what exactly do the crossover and IM resonance flaps do? Do they work in conjuction with the egr blending flap or are they independent of it?

__________________
1995 E300 Diesel
2002 GMC Duramax CC LB 4X4
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
No, they're all controlled independently. I don't quite understand the theory of why the 2 intake flaps work but I know they're for optimizing the engine's power band and maybe also idle quality. From my observation the one in the crossover pipe starts to move and restrict air flow around 3000 RPM. The one in the intake manifold opens just over 1000 RPM. The EGR flap opens around 2000 RPM at light throttle and closes with higher RPM's and/or full throttle.

One other thing I recently did with the flap in my crossover pipe is loosen the blade and re-adjust it, then lube it again. I also re-lubed the others. It seems to have helped some more. I still get the occasional ping but you really have to listen for it and it's much better than it used to be. I'm sure higher-cetane fuel would help further. The cetane additive I use can only do so much.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-02-2008, 02:34 AM
curlytom's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 172
Diesel Addict - I read this post over at the ************** web site and I thought about your pinging problem. If you sift throug all the egr stuff, it comes down to the timing as the cause the pinging?

"Besides being an emission control device and lowering the percentage of Ntrogen oxides in the exhaust, the EGR valve has the effect of diluting the fuel/air mixture and causing somewhat lower combustion temperature inside the cylinders. Also, due to its diluting effect, the pump injection timing is set slightly ahead to compensate. Same goes for gasoline engines. As a matter of fact, when an EGR valve fails closed on a gasoline engine (as due to bad vacuum diaphragm), the engine will start pinging when run on regular gas. This is due to ignition timing advanced further to compensate for the EGR effect. The solution then is to replace the EGR. A temporary fix is to run premium fuel or retard the ignition timing several degrees. Using the same logic, I would think that retarding the diesel injection pump timing by several degrees would be the correct compensation for a non-functioning EGR. You generally do not hear "pinging" or preignition in a diesel engine, but it could possibly occur."
__________________
1995 E300 Diesel
2002 GMC Duramax CC LB 4X4
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-03-2008, 12:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
I believe pinging in a diesel is always related to late combustion, where too much fuel is injected before it has a chance to ignite, and then you end up with too much fuel igniting all at once. My EGR appears to be working correctly and my timing appeared correct as well last time I checked it. I wonder then if delaying the timing could be useful in compensating for wear & tear, but then again the engine seems to run too good to have much wear. Hardly any oil consumption either.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
It seems that I have finally killed the pinging. At least I haven't heard it for a few days now. What seems to have done it is another can of Diesel Purge, but this time it was AFTER the Bosio nozzle installation. Before the nozzle swap diesel purging only had a temporary effect, probably because the original nozzles weren't spraying so great. We'll see if this time it's fixed for good.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-30-2008, 03:44 AM
curlytom's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 172
__________________
1995 E300 Diesel
2002 GMC Duramax CC LB 4X4
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-30-2008, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
No, they're all controlled independently. I don't quite understand the theory of why the 2 intake flaps work but I know they're for optimizing the engine's power band and maybe also idle quality. From my observation the one in the crossover pipe starts to move and restrict air flow around 3000 RPM. The one in the intake manifold opens just over 1000 RPM. The EGR flap opens around 2000 RPM at light throttle and closes with higher RPM's and/or full throttle.

One other thing I recently did with the flap in my crossover pipe is loosen the blade and re-adjust it, then lube it again. I also re-lubed the others. It seems to have helped some more. I still get the occasional ping but you really have to listen for it and it's much better than it used to be. I'm sure higher-cetane fuel would help further. The cetane additive I use can only do so much.
I also own a 96 e300 d, and the following information pertains to my model too.

This information was provided in another thread, and the owner had a 95 E300d
Here's how the resonance flaps work on my car;

The valve in the crossover pipe, I'll call X/O, and the valve in the manifold itself, I'll call 3/6.

The solenoid for the X/O valve is connected to the Yellow / Brown wire pair, and is the upper of the two solenoids when in the as installed position.

The solenoid for the 3/6 valve is connected to the Grey / Brown wire pair.

In the relaxed position with no vacuum, the X/O valve is closed - i.e. the crossover pipes remain independent for their full length.

With no vacuum, the 3/6 valve is closed, and the manifold behaves as an independent pair of 3 cylinder manifolds.

<2400 rpm 3/6 valve Closed, X/O valve Closed

>2400 rpm &
<3500 rpm 3/6 valve Closed, X/O valve Open

>3500 rpm 3/6 valve Open, X/O valve Open
__________________
96 E300d
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-30-2008, 11:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 621
Oops I'm a little late to this thread, but just wanted to add that I have the Bosio nozzles in my 606 and they are great, runs nicely no issues. I pulled my injectors and took them, and the new nozzles to the local diesel injection shop. They balanced and pop-tested them.

I've also had Bosio nozzles in my TDI for about 100k miles now, pleased with those too, good power, no issues.
__________________
'98 E300 turbodiesel
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-30-2008, 01:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpernell View Post
I also own a 96 e300 d, and the following information pertains to my model too.

This information was provided in another thread, and the owner had a 95 E300d
Here's how the resonance flaps work on my car;

The valve in the crossover pipe, I'll call X/O, and the valve in the manifold itself, I'll call 3/6.

The solenoid for the X/O valve is connected to the Yellow / Brown wire pair, and is the upper of the two solenoids when in the as installed position.

The solenoid for the 3/6 valve is connected to the Grey / Brown wire pair.

In the relaxed position with no vacuum, the X/O valve is closed - i.e. the crossover pipes remain independent for their full length.

With no vacuum, the 3/6 valve is closed, and the manifold behaves as an independent pair of 3 cylinder manifolds.

<2400 rpm 3/6 valve Closed, X/O valve Closed

>2400 rpm &
<3500 rpm 3/6 valve Closed, X/O valve Open

>3500 rpm 3/6 valve Open, X/O valve Open
It's different on my '96. Like I said the 3/6 valve on mine opens as early as approx. 1000 RPM. But I think the X/O behavior is the same as I noticed that one opens much later, but I don't know exactly at what RPM.

Also interesting is my observation that yes, both valves are closed with the engine off, but if you unplug their electrical connections with the engine on, both valves open.
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-30-2008, 02:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlytom View Post
__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-30-2008, 11:31 PM
930dreamer's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 127
I ordered six new nozzles for my 86 SDL. If I find a diesel shop to pop test and balance how do I know they Really did the work? New to MB and diesels. Shawn
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-30-2008, 11:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Walnut Creek, CA & 1,150 miles S of Key West
Posts: 4,874
Choose a shop you feel you can trust....? Or, watch while it is done.
__________________
Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-31-2008, 10:37 AM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by 930dreamer View Post
I ordered six new nozzles for my 86 SDL. If I find a diesel shop to pop test and balance how do I know they Really did the work? New to MB and diesels. Shawn
Hope you got name brand nozzles... you may want to install them and break them in for a couple thousand miles before balancing, though.

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-31-2008, 11:21 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,234
I have nothing against breaking in new Injector Nozzles and then having them Pop Tested; but, no place I have ever worked (during 18 years) deemed this necessary for either new or rebuilt nozzles.

If I did decide to do this it would mean Pop Testing them when they were rebuilt and pulling them out severl K later and Pop Testing them again. Not just exchanging Spray Nozzles for a new one and putting them on the engine without Pop Testing.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-31-2008, 11:35 AM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,102
New nozzles often don't spray perfectly, they need some break-in time. Not always though. But after break-in, the pop pressures typically drop by 2-5 bar compared to new. I'd pop test before installing and write down the numbers, then run then for a few thousand miles, then remove and balance them.

If you balance to begin with, you may need to re-balance a few after break-in (or all of them, if you're trying to set to a specific pressure). Of course this is much easier if you have a pop tester in your garage (~$200 or so). Kinda tough if you're paying a shop to do the work.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page