Tie rod replacement ... advice?
 

Took my car to get new wheels + alignment today, and the shop said I need new tie rods ... which I believe, considering the wear patterns on the old tires. Going to try a DIY for this, as it doesn't look like a real brutal job (already ordered OE tie rods for $50 less EACH than what the shop quoted me). I've done the search and have the FSM so I know the procedure, but could use advice:
-Some people are OK with the pickle fork rather than the joint separator. Others say go with the MB tool or something similar. I'm replacing the whole tie rods, so do I really need to worry about preserving the sanctity of the ball joints? I.e., can/should I do this job well using a pickle fork instead of a $300 tool? Opinions appreciated.
-This might be a dumb question, but I think my overall intelligence is high enough that I can afford the hit of an occasional dumb question. Do you have to remove the wheel to do this? And do you have to jack up both sides of the car or can you go one side at a time? I have a somewhat-legitimate fear of my car falling on me. I usually use ramps and go under from the front, so if it rolls off it will only break several bones, and not crush/flatten me entirely. Unfortunately a state-of-the-art lift will not fit my budget, and definitely won't fit my garage.:o

Thanks guys ... :cool:

You are replacing the ball joints at each end when you do this so no problem.
For other joints on my car I have used a seperator that I bought from the local discount auto store for around $20 and it works fine.
In the picture of the attached site I have the center tool and the one in the top right and have had good luck with those two.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92882

I used the pickle fork on my 240D tie rods. Took a big hammer and lots of cursing to break them loose ;). You'll need an alignment when you're done. I think I left my car on ramps.

John

Go with the pickle fork, use a 3lb hammer and don't hold back :D

Jim

I just basically pried them off with the pickle fork, hammer wasn't necessary.

This is, in my experience, the Holy Grail of tie-rod removers.

http://www.partsamerica.com/productdetail.aspx?MfrCode=APO&MfrPartNumber=T75517&CategoryCode=3492

Make your new tie rod the same length as the old so that the alignment is still in the ballpark.

Count the threads :)

I used a pickle fork, lifted one corner at a time, wheel off, steering locked helps once you steer the end into an accessible position.

I just let the alignment shop install mine, since I was going to have to bring it there anyway.

I would suggest taking the wheel off - the outer tie rod end sits really close to the wheel (I think it is less than 1" away), so it would be awkward to access the tie rod end with the wheel on (I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that it might be harder).

You can do each side individually. I think I removed the old tie rod with a 2-arm puller (I don't own a joint separator or a pickle fork so I know I didn't use either of those!). When you take the old tie rod off, set it on the bench next to the new one, and adjust the new one to exactly the same length (to within 1 millimeter). Then install the new one, put the wheel back on, and drive the car around the block. If the steering wheel isn't centered when the car is going straight on a flat section of road, park the car with the wheels turned so you can see the tie rod, and adjust the tie rod length by a tiny bit (around 1mm, I don't recall needing to jack up the car to do this). Drive again & repeat until the wheel is centered when the car is going straight. Then replace the tie rod on the other side. This will get things approximately correct for the trip to the alignment shop.

Also, some replacement tie rods have larger diameter ends than others, so confirm that there is no contact between the tie rod (or its rubber boot) and the wheel once the wheel has been reinstalled.

Count the turns when you're taking it off, and keep outwards pressure on it. Wherever it comes off, reinstall the new one at that same angle. Drive immediatly to the dealership for the alignment.

The tires cost more then the alignment, get it done at a dealership...

~Nate

I always popped them with a pickel fork and mini sledge. As said above count the threads to get them close.

This discussion brings up a question I have which is what are the specifications for the toe setting on these cars?

See attached files...

I have a 126 model and that is for the 124 although it may be the same.
I noticed my front tires had bad wear on the out side edges so I checked the toe with a tape measure and found it was in by 3/4 of an inch so I reset the toe to "0". From your chart it looks like it should be in just a little. When I reset to "0" the car handled a LOT better than it had been.

these discussions always make me laugh and wonder why so few mechanics are aware of the secret of separation of tapered joint fittings.
tools needed, side cutters for the cotter pin if equipped,
a large crecent wrench or the correct wrench for the nut,
two large ish ball peen or sledge hammers I like to use a 3LB mini sledge, and a 2LB peen, YMMV...
anyway,
ya take out the cotter pin, loosen the nut a couple turns, but don't take it off.
set one hammer on one side of the part that the tapered pin passes through, and HIT the opposite side as hard as you can with the other hammer.
POP out comes the joint, and ZERO damage to the boot.

I beat on a 6month-old tie-rod end the way you describe, finally mushroomed it to no repair. I've used this method many times but sometimes it doesn't work.

NO NO NO!!!
you don't hit the tapered pin. you hit the boss that the pin goes through.
the pin is too soft to take any hits, and hitting it will indeed alter it's size making it nigh impossible to remove by any means other than a torch!

Thanks guys ... I bought a pickle fork today and have an asundry of hammers, mallets, etc. so now I just have to wait on the tie rods getting here.

The FSM specifies 35Nm of torque for the nut fastening the rod to the steering arms ... should I use a torque wrench for that or is "feel" acceptable?

If you have an Autozone or some of the other parts stores near you, they have free tool rental. Save your cash for parts.

John

John;

Could you describe in a little more detail. I've heard of hitting the knuckle end where the tapered fitting fits to get it to pop out. Are you saying to hit the opposite side of the hammer resting on the part?

John

Yes that is what he is saying.

sorry about the image size...
and the crappy tools in the pic, and the fact that it's a chebby not a MB in the pic... I don't always have a MB up in the air...
http://www.vs-tech.com/tierod.JPG

Yes, Hitting the joint which the pin passes through works fine. I might suggest rather than using two hammers though you can use just one and hit it along the "strong axis" of the connector, like I show in my modified version of your photo. I find this method works well.

You're really using the hammer to "jar" the pin from the taper and this way you aren't pounding on/twisting the other joint. Either way will work though. Just loosen the nut a couple of turn, whack it a couple of times and it comes right out. If that doesn't work you can always resort to the pickle fork method.

Also, as others have said, once you are done installing the tie rod, have the car aligned asap. I usually set my new ones to the same length as the old one was (by eye, laying them side by side), then install the new one and drive to the alignment shop to have it adjusted on the rack.

The two-hammer method certainly CAN and does work, but if you are replacing the tie rods and have a pickle fork, don't waste your energy on it. It takes a lot of force and room to really swing the hammer. Kind of a neat method ( as in "Wow- I squeezed that hunk of forged metal?") and worth a shot if you want to save the joint and boot, just harder than it needs to be in this case, IMO.

Rick

Thanks for the great pics!

John

The wait is over, my tie rods came in yesterday ... didn't have time to do much today but put the car up on ramps to get a better look at what I'm dealing with. Maybe this is a stupid question, but is there any reason I can't remove and install the joint on ramps, i.e., with the car's weight on the wheels? I'm small and flexible, and unless something's really stuck, I should have enough room/leverage. Any reason it has to be done with weight off the suspension?

I look forward to replacing these ... they are pretty gross. They were supposedly replaced five years ago, according to my records, during a full front susp rebuild. But they look far worse than anything else under there.

I did this last month.....
 

Pickle fork works just fine.......when installing the new tie rods......the "factory" distance between ball joint centers is.....
W123: 345mm +-2mm
W124: 333mm +-2mm
W126: 367mm +-2mm
W201: 337mm +-2mm
SB

I did mine on ramps, replaced tie rods, idler arm repair kit, center rod and steering damper. I used a seperator I bought at Napa for less than $20. Car doesn't have steering wheel shakes like it did, although the steering wheel doesn't level driving straight. I still need the upper and lower control arm bushings and ball joints replaced as per the Mercedes indie I had look at it. Couldn't afford the $1300 he wanted to do the whole front end job and I couldn't supply the parts. I was thinking of using a pickle fork, but glad I went with seperator, getting too old to keep whacking on things, I usually end up breaking something I wasn't intending to repair. The seperator was nice a little turn of wrench and with a LOUD bang the tie rod ends seperated. Spent more time adjusting the new to old lengths than it did taking them out or installing the new parts.
I did have an indie mechanic replace my serpentine belt and install upgraded vacuum pump, ran $80, money well spent tokk him all of two hours where it would have taken me all day. Now all I have to do is find a lift I can use and do my flex plates, motor mounts, tranny mount and other rubber bits.

Would this puller work on an MB? http://www.autozone.com/in_our_stores/loan_a_tool/pullers_specialized/tie_rod_end.htm
Thinking of just renting one at Autozone if it saves me all the hammer-swinging.

Depends on the distance between the jaws, or how well it fits the car. Mine don't fit the 124, but aren't autozone pullers, this might fit.

"rent" the puller from autozone, you pay the price as a deposit, then if you return it you get your deposit back. If you decide to keep it, you just don't return it, really a handy policy.

I replaced the tie rods and drag link on our 1979 300D earlier today. I used the two hammer method to attempt to loosen the joint and one side just fell out without much effort. I used the MBZ puller for a W124 on the joints that didn't seperate and it worked perfectly. The drag link was a little tougher since I had to move the steering gear so that I could fit the puller on the joint and still get my 22M wrench on the puller bolt. In any case it took about an hour to jack the car up, remove the two tie rods and drag link, install the new parts, and lower the car. I attempted to estimate the tie rod length by matching them up by eye from the rods I removed .... not to scientific but the car drove straight afterward. I'll take it to the alignment shop next week to complete the job.

David Roseman
Long Beach, Ca

If you set the new tie rods to the same length as the old, why is an alignment necessary?

If they are set to the exact same length, and the previous alignment was correct, in theory it will remain aligned correctly.
Setting to the exact same length (especially if the old ones were worn and have some slop) is a difficult task for most.