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  #1  
Old 06-27-2008, 04:14 AM
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Next generation of Biofuels...

It is interesting to say the least. Biofuels are coming into their own. It will take some major advances to make them truly viable. This could be one.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4270240.html?series=19
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2008, 04:21 AM
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sugar is going to go sky high... and i want my biodiesel to smell like beer
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
scientists have zeroed in on 2010 or 2011 for the zero-emissions magic to start happening
It does not matter one bit what fuel or energy source is used, if it burns or produces power it cannot be zero-emissions. At best its emissions-shifting.

Quote:
"If you look at where sugar cane is in Brazil, or at where biomass will be here in the near future, we're pretty confident that we can compete with oil around the $50-a-barrel range," Pal says.
Its not possible to produce enough to meet or exceed the daily volume demand. Even if it were, Brazil would level the entire Amazon forest to produce enough. The consequences of that are FAR worse than burning petro fuels for another 100 years.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:06 AM
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I'm going to have to agree with FI on this. Surgar might be more viable than corn, but it still raises problems. I was watching a news show on PBS. Two of the sugar growers there were bought out, to help restore flow to the Everglades. Also, talked about the polution dumped by them into Lake Okeechobe. So, I'd imagine it to be worst in the Amazon. Also, the enviromental damage due to weather pattern changes.
This is also happening in Indonesia. Peat bogs and other aquafiers are being dug up for Jathropha plants and other plantations. I think the effects down the road won't be good. Thousands of years destroyed for a knee jerk reation.
I still believe that biofuels can be viable. If we look at the waste streams, there is plenty of stuff being dumped. I am think algea oil as the prime source. I also think solar power is gaining momentum. I heard of solar panel plants in Florida being planned by a few of their power plants. Not the best place for them, but they are working in Germany with heavy subsidies.
As far as subsidies, I think they are needed for initial start up. To often they remain a crutch and hinder development or other avenues of possibilties. It isn't always the better mouse trap that gets produced.
Tom
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
It does not matter one bit what fuel or energy source is used, if it burns or produces power it cannot be zero-emissions. At best its emissions-shifting.


Its not possible to produce enough to meet or exceed the daily volume demand. Even if it were, Brazil would level the entire Amazon forest to produce enough. The consequences of that are FAR worse than burning petro fuels for another 100 years.
I don't understand how so many of these people that are researching these types of sources of fuel can always be so wrong. I mean not to discredit you, but I want to know what facts that you state "its not possible to produce enough". Mid America farmers have been getting subsidies and entitlements for decades, you know, encouragement NOT to grow any more than a set amount. Maybe if the government were less motivated by their own wealth and election contributions, they would be more likely to devote the funds where they need to be.

Solar power needs to come down in cost before it can be viable, and there is a company now that has a process of producing flexible, high efficiency panels for a low cost, and those should be on the market soon.

Personally I think it is ridiculous that we have all of these natural sources of energy and still rely on rogue states that have us by the short hairs.
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  #6  
Old 06-28-2008, 01:35 AM
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Americans consume 20.7million barrels of petroleum products per day. How many people do you know that want to be a farmer? I sure as hell don't want to be one.

Its not the government's fault as many would like to point the finger at, its the farmers abusing what they are given and not doing their jobs.

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 06-28-2008 at 04:16 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-28-2008, 03:31 AM
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Should the government not have better regulations on how they distribute money? I agree it isnt the governments fault entirely though, but the Government estimates that the outer continental shelf, the one they said no to on June 11, has 76 billion barrels of oil in it that are recoverable and that's with today's technology. Let me put that into perspective. 76 billion barrels is enough to replace every single barrel of oil that we import from everywhere outside of North America for the next 34 years at our current pace. That's in the one place, one, that congress said we couldn't go into. THAT, I blame on our government.
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2008, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Biglex View Post
THAT, I blame on our government.
That I agree with completely. There is no reason why we shouldn't allow deep sea drilling. We have the technology to do the job swiftly and safely, we need the oil, it's just sitting there doing nothing and there are surely more than that one to be found. 70% of the earth is covered in ocean and much of the floor was once dry land many long times ago. There is MUCH more to be found as drilling technology progresses.

Don't let anyone scare you into thinking we have only X number of years worth of oil left in the world, anyone talking like that is only guessing. Land isn't the only place to find oil and there are countless billions of barrels yet to be found.

Thats no licence to guzzle oil, we should still further increase the efficiency at which we use it but not at the DO IT NOW pace the doomsday predictors demand.

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 06-28-2008 at 04:27 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2008, 12:04 PM
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FI,

Most of the "DoomSayers" of the peak oil movement are not saying that we are going to be running out of oil; their argument is that when peak-oil arrives, the disparity between demand and offer will throw the world into an oil shock.
I agree with you that drilling should have already started in a calm and ordered manner.
Biofuels are part of the solution but are certainly not the panacea a lot of people seem to believe. To answer Biglex; yes a lot of people studying this can be horribly wrong because the main motivation here is money and not the greater good.
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