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  #46  
Old 07-12-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnzy View Post
Trying to have a reasonable conversation with a global warming zealot is impossible. The whole man made GW issue has now evolved into a religion that has sucked in many desperate, ill informed people with dubious intentions. ANY fact that is used in the argument by the non believer is scoffed at, and the pitiful non believer is then mocked and bullied into submission. I am sick of it. I don't want to hear a god damn word about the world and pollution and why it's America's problem. All the clueless rabble of the global warming movement can pry their fat asses on to a "green" airplane if they can find one and fly to China, india, Russia, and all the "Stans" and have a *****fest with them. Oh wait, they would be told, "go to Hell, we have a country to run, people to feed, and industry to support and grow, either leave or we will shoot you". Something they need to hear more often. Thanks, I just had to vent. I'm better now..........really.
Answer this simple question then: What has caused the significant warming of the last 30 years? If you think it's the sun, you may want to look at what it's been doing in that period. Arguing against man-made global warming is like arguing the Earth is flat.
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  #47  
Old 07-12-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Answer this simple question then: What has caused the significant warming of the last 30 years? If you think it's the sun, you may want to look at what it's been doing in that period. Arguing against man-made global warming is like arguing the Earth is flat.
Really the scientific studies that I was reading last semester, very boring and dull mind you, seem to conclude that no one is sure. We simply lack enough data and since the earths climate is constantly in flux, its hard to say what causes what.

Global cooling is the next big issues, some of the studies I was reading think we are nearing the end of a warming cycle, which naturaly would mean the earth is getting hotter. But they think we are about to start another cooling cycle.

You give me a respected scientist that argues for global warming, and I'll counter with one who argues against it. Its not nearly as cut and dry of an issue as the mass media is playing it out to be.

You have to remember the mass media is pretty liberal and plays to peoples fear. Fear sells and global warming is really a good story to run with.
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  #48  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:37 PM
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Answer this simple question then: What has caused the significant warming of the last 30 years? If you think it's the sun, you may want to look at what it's been doing in that period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Arguing against man-made global warming is like arguing the Earth is flat.
Thanks, you just proved my point. "ANY fact that is used in the argument by the non believer is scoffed at, and the pitiful non believer is then mocked and bullied into submission." The world is not flat. I believe that it is round. I also believe that it is presumptive if not outright ignorant to assume that humans can effect an atmosphere of a planet the size of earth when the Mt. St. Helens eruption, BY ITSELF, was estimated to produce more pollution into the atmoshere than ALL of mankind in the previous 200 years. That would include the Industrial revolution ie. unregulated coal burning at a scale we cannot comprehend in todays society, WWI, WWII (killing facsists produces LOTS of pollution) I could go on for a while, but I won't. Volcanos have been erupting for billions of years.Pollution created by humans is but a flea on an elephants ass in the grand scheme of things. Our planet has, by all accounts gone thru hundreds of climate change cycles, and will continue to do so long after we are all gone.
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  #49  
Old 07-12-2008, 04:16 PM
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What is the correct temperature of the earth?
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  #50  
Old 07-12-2008, 04:17 PM
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I drive my car, as many of us do because I choose to. That is what the America I remember was all about. I do not need Marxist media and a washed up internet inventors telling me how and what to drive.
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  #51  
Old 07-12-2008, 04:48 PM
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I was unaware that some people still believe the

6,602,224,175


people in the world have no affect on our environment.

In 1950 there were only 2,510,000,000. In 1750: 791,000,000, ect.

How could you think the recent rise in energy use and pollution would not have an affect on the planet?

Comparing complex chemicals like C-F-C's and volcanoes dose not to hold any validity in my rational opinion.
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Last edited by seth411; 07-12-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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  #52  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by seth411 View Post
I was unaware that some people still believe the 6,602,224,175 people in the world have no affect on our environment.
It does not matter if there are 10,000,000,000 people, humans are insignificant in the planet's atmosphere. The Earth's climate is always changing, its never been stable and its been much hotter and much colder than it is right now without our help. Why do people assume that warming is a bad thing? Life flourishes in a warm climate, everything dies in cold!

Human produced pollution is about as much as a fart in a movie theater. If you can do that and make the room warmer I'll be impressed!

DA is wrong, arguing for man-made global warming is like arguing the Earth is flat. Its blind faith based on false and selective information to keep you scared and under control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnzy View Post
I don't want to hear a god damn word about the world and pollution and why it's America's problem.
"Goodbye from the World's Biggest Polluter"

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 07-12-2008 at 08:25 PM.
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  #53  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:00 PM
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Okay no one is going to change there minds on a Mercedes forum. But can we at least agree that you don't want polluted rivers as much as I do, and that we booth know the more consumer oriented we are, those products create waste that may sit in a land fill. And the creation and use of those products undoubtedly use our nonrenewable resources.

I guess...we may not agree about GW but, do we agree that our consumer habits needs to change. That there are less rivers to eat fish from than 50 years ago?
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  #54  
Old 07-12-2008, 07:29 PM
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The air and water are currently 50 times cleaner than they were at the end of the 19th century. Don't take my word for it, check into it yourselves. FI is right on target, why is warming bad? The planet was much warmer than it is now for more than 3.5 billion years. What's the issue? Dinosaurs lived for 100 million years in a very warm, tropical climate that covered the entire planet except for the poles. I think humans give way too much credit and put too much value on themselves.
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  #55  
Old 07-12-2008, 07:30 PM
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Your data is invalid :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Answer this simple question then: What has caused the significant warming of the last 30 years? If you think it's the sun, you may want to look at what it's been doing in that period. Arguing against man-made global warming is like arguing the Earth is flat.
It is funny where you get your facts from. read this article and then tell me that it has been the warmest in the last thirty years...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8383

Let me pull some tid-bits out to entice others to go read it.


"Blogger Finds Y2K Bug in NASA Climate Data

NASA has now silently released corrected figures, and the changes are truly astounding. The warmest year on record is now 1934. 1998 (long trumpeted by the media as record-breaking) moves to second place. 1921 takes third. In fact, 5 of the 10 warmest years on record now all occur before World War II. Anthony Watts has put the new data in chart form, along with a more detailed summary of the events. "

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  #56  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
It does not matter if there are 10,000,000,000 people, humans are insignificant in the planet's atmosphere.
incorrect (in your own words)

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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
The Earth's climate is always changing, its never been stable and its been much hotter and much colder than it is right now without our help.
yes the earths climate is always changing but NEVER at the rate at which is now....due to man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Life flourishes in a warm climate, everything dies in cold!
Not exactly correct at all. have you EVER been to Antartica? or the Arctic? there are plenty of plants that only grow in the tundra...cloudberry, arctic willow. hell even locally, you can see certain conifers only grow in the northern ranges of the rockies and into the canadian rockies at higher altitudes, and not lower. and on the other hand, youre seeing certain trees move their way up the slopes that only 30 years ago were barren.

im going to argue vicariously through my wife who has a earth science major (geologist). and i will leave it at that, but you, sir, are the one with misinformation. study up on ice core and oxygen isotopes and ice sheet dynamics. research NOAAs studies into carbon levels in the last 600,000 years. youll be surprised at their findings. unless you think they are just spreading misinformation as well.
suggested readings: Hays, Imbrie and Shackleton, "Variations in the Earth's Orbit: Pacemaker of the Ice Ages"
Milutin Milankovic?....especially anything with his studies known as Milankovic? cycles.

comparing global warming to a fart in a theater is very naive.
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  #57  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:42 PM
ForcedInduction
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yes the earths climate is always changing but NEVER at the rate at which is now....due to man.
That statement is a complete guess, there is no data to accurately show climate change at any period of earth's history for such a narrow timeframe other than the last 200-300 years.

Quote:
Not exactly correct at all.
Yes, it is.

Quote:
are the one with misinformation.
Incorrect.

Quote:
study up on ice core and oxygen isotopes and ice sheet dynamics. research NOAAs studies into carbon levels in the last 600,000 years.
Only 600k years? Thats only a speck of time, how about including the other 3.5 billion years?

Quote:
comparing global warming to a fart in a theater is very naive.
No, its comparing human made emissions. The earth is warming, the fact is that humans are not the cause.
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  #58  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:03 PM
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The problem is the earth is so old, and we really don't have enough climate data to extrapolate out accurit info. At best we have 300 years and some of that is sketchy.

Think of it like this, if the Empire State building is a timeline of when the earth could support life, our data would be about equal to you plucking out an eye lash and laying it flat on the sidewalk.

If you bother to actualy read some studies its actualy kind of interesting how much guess work their is.
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  #59  
Old 07-12-2008, 11:07 PM
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A car will never use more energy in its driving lifespan than was used to build it. That is a simple fact. Keeping an old diesel on the road is just as green as driving a new hybrid, especially if you burn B100 that you make yourself. I'm making bio from WVO that was going into the local landfill. And my diesels smell delicious too!
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  #60  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:48 PM
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That's the important thing, hence a new 'green' gas auto is a poor choice if the object is to 'save the planet', true conservation has always involved making do with existing product, that means fixing...think the average high-school female grad in her new toyota fit ever thought about that? No, she had dad get it 'cause she wants to show up as a 'sensitive' consumer, amazingly, gas mileage is not on top of the list. In most cases, it is a statement, and to my eye, extremely shallow--not a good sign for our political/economic future, a nation of folks who have never even changes their own oil setting policies, thats what scares me, NOT gw.
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