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-   -   Top 10 Worst Polluters (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/227333-top-10-worst-polluters.html)

SirNik84 07-11-2008 01:22 PM

Top 10 Worst Polluters
 
At the TOP of the Yahoo News this morning.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/610/dirty-driving-top-10-worst-polluters/;_ylc=X3oDMTFiNGVqdnJzBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawN3b3JzdC1wb2xsdXRlcnM-

Notice that they are almost all Diesels!

I wonder why the USA hates Diesels when garbage like this is at the top of the yahoo news.

bustedbenz 07-11-2008 01:50 PM

I'm starting to truly despise articles like that.

otto huber 07-11-2008 02:09 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the Carbon credit score system to rate the vehicles. NOX emissions are like 200x's as expensive as CO2. There are too many variables for a brief article like that to cover. I wouldn't call it blatant misinformation, but it's definitely twisted.
To give an example of how useless the Carbon cap system is, take a look at the CA beater buy back program. You sell your beater to the junk yard for $650.00. You think to yourself, "Good thing I got that old, polluting vehicle off the road".
Now the junkyard has a few Carbon credits that it can sell to any Coal burning plant in the country that finds it to be cheaper to purchase credits than to modernize its facility.

Otto
'79 240D 4 spd

SirNik84 07-11-2008 02:36 PM

This whole carbon thing makes me mad. since when did one thing determine the fate of the planet? i always thought the ecosystem was more complex. I can understand why you might want to keep an eye on emissions. but why do stories like this only focus on the carbon?

Carbon credits make me mad also. i think everyone should be held accountable to the public for there pollution. if we had a population that truly cared about pollution you wouldn't need government oversight and carbon credits. factories, and power plants should have a publicly available report of their pollution. and let the public see how it all works.

The people of California love the idea of the Prius but what if there was a report on the pollution given off by its factory. I think if every factory had a label, like the nutrition facts on the back of any food product, the customers of the products produced could then make informed purchases and let the economy sort out all this pollution crap.

turbobenz 07-11-2008 04:32 PM

its my guess that taking old, reliable beaters of the road is probably worse than just leaving them alone. Driving a mercedes diesel that goess 500k is much greener than a prius.

DieselAddict 07-11-2008 05:25 PM

No doubt that article is biased (and a bit old too). It doesn't make a clear distinction between EPA's "pollution score" which doesn't include CO2 and the carbon footprint which is separate. The average Joe reading this will no doubt conclude that diesels are filthy, both in terms of smog forming emissions and the carbon footprint.

A little perspective. That 1/10 pollution score that the pre-2007 diesels have is actually the same that many new gasoline vehicles had as recently as 2001. Are they really that filthy? I don't think so. Second, the carbon footprint of these diesel SUV's as I'm sure many of you know is actually less than that of an equivalent gasoline vehicle. Yet again the article doesn't mention this.

Having said that, I'd disagree that driving an old Mercedes diesel for 500K miles is greener than driving a Prius. The Prius should last at least as long as any old MB diesel (car tech is improving and vehicles now last longer than they used to) and no doubt the Prius's emissions are very clean. I say enjoy your MB diesel for what it is: a well built machine that's stylish, safe and economical, but don't kid yourself that it's greener than a Prius.

moxieman2 07-11-2008 05:28 PM

Oh well, I can't say I drive the old SD's to save the environment....In fact, until I can get solid proof that global warming is real...I'm not going to even think twice about it, so I'll continue adding 2 cycle to my dino diesel, and keeping my S430 @ 68 degrees inside while doing 80mph!:D

chetwesley 07-11-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1907368)
Having said that, I'd disagree that driving an old Mercedes diesel for 500K miles is greener than driving a Prius. The Prius should last at least as long as any old MB diesel (car tech is improving and vehicles now last longer than they used to) and no doubt the Prius's emissions are very clean. I say enjoy your MB diesel for what it is: a well built machine that's stylish, safe and economical, but don't kid yourself that it's greener than a Prius.

Is there any data on the environmental impact of building new cars? I would think that the energy and environmental footprint that goes into producing a new car could count for several years of running an old car that still works, even if it is inefficient.

It would seem that saving the world from producing new cars by driving old ones that just need some parts and repairs has to at least come close to the gains of driving a new efficient, clean vehicle, especially if it is an old MB diesel that can run on bio. :)

But that is only my guess, I don't have any data to back that up.

DieselAddict 07-11-2008 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxieman2
Oh well, I can't say I drive the old SD's to save the environment....In fact, until I can get solid proof that global warming is real...I'm not going to even think twice about it, so I'll continue adding 2 cycle to my dino diesel, and keeping my S430 @ 68 degrees inside while doing 80mph!

Man-induced global warming is real and I have already discussed this topic to death (check out the Open Discussion sometimes). But that's where diesels have an advantage over gasoline vehicles, their carbon footprint is lower. On a single vehicle basis though, your vehicle's emissions are less than a drop in the ocean so don't feel too guilty.

BTW, how's that S430 of yours? Do you think it's better than a W140?

DieselAddict 07-11-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chetwesley (Post 1907383)
Is there any data on the environmental impact of building new cars? I would think that the energy and environmental footprint that goes into producing a new car could count for several years of running an old car that still works, even if it is inefficient.

It would seem that saving the world from producing new cars by driving old ones that just need some parts and repairs has to at least come close to the gains of driving a new efficient, clean vehicle, especially if it is an old MB diesel that can run on bio.

But that is only my guess, I don't have any data to back that up.

It depends. Check out this article that I came across recently:
http://www.slate.com/id/2194989/?y=1

rrgrassi 07-11-2008 05:38 PM

What about the gassers that burn so much oil they thing they are a diesel? Talk about a noxious fog...and these actually pass smog inspections...how?

moxieman2 07-11-2008 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1907389)
Man-induced global warming is real and I have already discussed this topic to death (check out the Open Discussion sometimes). But that's where diesels have an advantage over gasoline vehicles, their carbon footprint is lower. On a single vehicle basis though, your vehicle's emissions are less than a drop in the ocean so don't feel too guilty.

BTW, how's that S430 of yours? Do you think it's better than a W140?


Well, I really don't know to be honest with you, I've never had a chance to own a W140 yet, but I've driven several, and I don't think its any "better" that a W140, but different, I will say I love the classic lines of a W140, but I also like the modern look of the W220, I battled this constantly when deciding to update the W124 to the W210, lol. I will say, I don't know that a W140 S420 could average 28.5 mpg on the highway, but the S430 does (cruise control @ 80). I don't think I'll ever be able to say I like any Benz more than another though, I love all of 'em, that's how I end up saving them from the crusher, lol.

chetwesley 07-11-2008 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1907391)
It depends. Check out this article that I came across recently:
http://www.slate.com/id/2194989/?y=1

Thanks, that's an interesting article. I guess it depends on the car, what type of fuel it uses and how much, and how long you drive it.

rrgrassi 07-11-2008 05:44 PM

Crushers add to the carbon problem also...so you are saving two things, air and classic MBs!

moxieman2 07-11-2008 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi (Post 1907402)
Crushers add to the carbon problem also...so you are saving two things, air and classic MBs!

Never thought of it like that....:)


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