Alcohol for fuel - need opionions

[NickMendoza]

http://www.permaculture.com/site/node/276

Diesel is going up and I bet it will be 7.00+ soon in Calif.

Brown gas - did not produce what I wanted
Veggie oil - considering it but do have concerns with injection pump

Now alcohol = Please look at what this guy has to say. I would really appreciate comments. He says that we can produce the alcohol and offers the conversion kits that are being used in Brazil.

Other opton is we mix the alcohol with 5% diesel.

Thank you in advance.

Nick

[Chad300tdt]

My understanding was that Alcohol/Ethanol is for Gasoline engines as Biodiesel is for Diesel engines.

The difference is no conversion is needed for a diesel engine to run B100 where a gasoline engine needs an upgrade to handle anything more than 10% ethanol in the gas.

I have heard of people blending Veggie oil with alcohol, but haven't heard much detail.

[compress ignite]

Mercedes kinda missed the boat on the whole water-separating fuel filter cruise.

1.Alcohol is hygroscopic [attracts and bonds with water]
2.Alcohol/water mix separates out of the "Fuel" mix and falls to the bottom of
the tank.(Remember Diesel FLOATS on water).
3.Bosch(or whatever brand,...I like Bosch) Injection Pumps think you are trying
to KILL them by running alcohol/water through them...So like good little
Deutschlander equipment that they are...they DIE!
4.Diesel fuel Injectors have no use for alcohol/water...Bad,Bad,Bad.

[wvojoe]

pre-ignition?

[NickMendoza]

How are all the cars in Brazil doing it?

What do they have that we do not?

Brazil is not importing ONE bit of oil.

[NickMendoza]

I posted about brown fuel and did get a lot of excellent feedback. So much that I am looking for something else.


Almost every country can become energy-independent. Anywhere that has sunlight and land can produce alcohol from plants. Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world imports no oil, since half its cars run on alcohol fuel made from sugarcane, grown on 1% of its land.

We can reverse global warming. Since alcohol is made from plants, its production takes carbon dioxide out of the air, sequestering it, with the result that it reverses the greenhouse effect (while potentially vastly improving the soil). Recent studies show that in a permaculturally designed mixed-crop alcohol fuel production system, the amount of greenhouse gases removed from the atmosphere by plants—and then exuded by plant roots into the soil as sugar—can be 13 times what is emitted by processing the crops and burning the alcohol in our cars.

We can revitalize the economy instead of suffering through Peak Oil. Oil is running out, and what we replace it with will make a big difference in our environment and economy. Alcohol fuel production and use is clean and environmentally sustainable, and will revitalize families, farms, towns, cities, industries, as well as the environment. A national switch to alcohol fuel would provide many millions of new permanent jobs.

No new technological breakthroughs are needed. We can make alcohol fuel out of what we have, where we are. Alcohol fuel can efficiently be made out of many things, from waste products like stale donuts, grass clippings, food processing waste-even ocean kelp. Many crops produce many times more alcohol per acre than corn, using arid, marshy, or even marginal land in addition to farmland. Just our lawn clippings could replace a third of the autofuel we get from the Mideast.

Unlike hydrogen fuel cells, we can easily use alcohol fuel in the vehicles we already own. Unmodified cars can run on 50% alcohol, and converting to 100% alcohol or flexible fueling (both alcohol and gas) costs only a few hundred dollars. Most auto companies already sell new dual-fuel vehicles.

Alcohol is a superior fuel to gasoline! It’s 105 octane, burns much cooler with less vibration, is less flammable in case of accident, is 98% pollution-free, has lower evaporative emissions, and deposits no carbon in the engine or oil, resulting in a tripling of engine life. Specialized alcohol engines can get at least 22% better mileage than gasoline or diesel.
It’s not just for gasoline cars. We can also easily use alcohol fuel to power diesel engines, trains, aircraft, small utility engines, generators to make electricity, heaters for our homes—and it can even be used to cook our food.

Alcohol has a proud history. Gasoline is a refinery’s toxic waste; alcohol fuel is liquid sunshine. Henry Ford’s early cars were all flex-fuel. It wasn’t until gasoline magnate John D. Rockefeller funded Prohibition that alcohol fuel companies were driven out of business.

The byproducts of alcohol production are clean, instead of being oil refinery waste, and are worth more than the alcohol itself. In fact, they can make petrochemical fertilizers and herbicides obsolete. The alcohol production process concentrates and makes more digestible all protein and non-starch nutrients in the crop. It’s so nutritious that when used as animal feed, it produces more meat or milk than the corn it comes from. That’s right, fermentation of corn increases the food supply and lowers the cost of food.

Locally produced ethanol supercharges regional economies. Instead of fuel expenditures draining capital away to foreign bank accounts, each gallon of alcohol produces local income that gets recirculated many times. Every dollar of tax credit for alcohol generates up to $6 in new tax revenues from the increased local business.

Alcohol production brings many new small-scale business opportunities. There is huge potential for profitable local, integrated, small-scale businesses that produce alcohol and related byproducts, whereas when gas was cheap, alcohol plants had to be huge to make a profit.

Scale matters—most of the widely publicized potential problems with ethanol are a function of scale. Once production plants get beyond a certain size and are too far away from the crops that supply them, closing the ecological loop becomes problematic. Smaller-scale operations can more efficiently use a wide variety of crops than huge specialized one-crop plants, and diversification of crops would largely eliminate the problems of monoculture.



The byproducts of small-scale alcohol plants can be used in profitable, energy-efficient, and environmentally positive ways. For instance, spent mash (the liquid left over after distillation) contains all the nutrients the next fuel crop needs and can return it back to the soil if the fields are close to the operation. Big-scale plants, because they bring in crops from up to 45 miles away, can’t do this, so they have to evaporate all the water and sell the resulting byproduct as low-price animal feed,which accounts for half the energy used in the plant.

[Chad300tdt]

Here's a thread that shows some info about using algae to create biodiesel to run in diesel engines. Algae can also be used to create ethanol to run in gasoline engines.

Algae for Biodiesel

This would provide the same environmental benefits as the info you posted about what Brazil is doing.

BTW, since you posted this in the "diesel" forum I'm assuming that you're thinking you can run ethanol/alcohol in a diesel vehicle, which is incorrect and not what they are doing in Brazil.

[Chad300tdt]

Here's a link with info about a home Ethanol processor:
EFuel100 - home ethanol production

[wvojoe]

Originally Posted by Chad300tdt

BTW, since you posted this in the "diesel" forum I'm assuming that you're thinking you can run ethanol/alcohol in a diesel vehicle, which is incorrect and not what they are doing in Brazil.

yup.

[NickMendoza]

I just called David Blume.

He says you can make up to 100 gallons per day from simple home unit.

Diesel = combine 50/50 with Biodiesel. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Gas cars = 300.00 conversion Run 100% alcohol.

Well, this option looks a lot better than brown fuel option.

Thank you

Nick

[Chad300tdt]

Nick,

If you're wanting to find alternative fuels for your 300D, check this link:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

There are tons of people sharing their experiences on a wide variety of solutions. I'm sure you will find a solution that will work for you there.

[NickMendoza]

Great site! Thank you Chad 300t

I am done with paying such high fuel prices. When prices hit $7.00 and up = People are really going to be hurting.

I am going to learn to manufacture my own Biodiesel or alcohol (for my truck).

[chetwesley]

Someone was listening to Coast to Coast AM last night?

[NickMendoza]

Ohhh yes, I am so mad at the fuel situation! I was at the 99cent store and the women behind the counter said that the prices were about to skyrocket. I do not know if she was correct but she said that the managers have come in to get them ready for price changes.

What are they going to do with the name? NO more 99 cent store.

I looked at it sign to do something.

Nick

[zeke]

Originally Posted by Chad300tdt View Post

BTW, since you posted this in the "diesel" forum I'm assuming that you're thinking you can run ethanol/alcohol in a diesel vehicle, which is incorrect and not what they are doing in Brazil.


Apparently not....

read to the bottom:
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/Pubs/farmmgt/05010.html

up to 15% ethanol has no real effect on diesel engine power.

BUT, I do agree that ethanol is hygroscopic. On another thread, someone posted the tolerance limit for water in fuel in our cars is 1%. It is almost impossible to keep ethanol at less than 5% water (v/v - I work with ethanol daily). Soooo, I would be very hesitant to use ethanol at anything over 15 - 20%