Any progress today?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

This what we did today first replaced lines on prefilter inlet and outlet. Pumped had primer a noticed fuel coming out fo banjo fitting on top of canister filter replaced seals pumped no leaks.road tested car ran 75 80 mph in short distance.if i was in vegas i would have lost alot of money car was would have bet the car was fixed.told customer go drive car make sure ok before you leave town.warmer car got slowed down to 40 to 50 ok power but that was it not like yesterday when 30 and you didnt think you would make it back.and you could get the car to stall. Noticed fuel leaking at banjo fittings would fix one and it would leak somewhere else.pumped many many times, same problem.ran line to fuel container under hood from pre filter same problem.bypassed lift pump with electric same problem.we pumped road tested many,many,many times same problem.changed canister filter filled with sea foam and diesel road tested same problem.checked trans filter and fluid ok,getting tired of this car.when checking trans noticed car leaking oil bad at back of valve cover fixed valve cover added oil 3 quarts was pumping primer at this time also.road tested ran like a champ 75 80 again.so noticed some stuff in prefilter so customer and i decided to change it didnt get crazy about pumping .roadtested car ran great customer states has never e ran this good???????? He is staying tonight in town and road testing now thanks kerry and everyone else for all the input

Yes. Thanks to all for the great input. Also, an especially big thanks to STJAMES for helping me out with the better part of two days worth of work. Especially since he only charged me the equivalent of a few hours worth of work. Now if he can only find help that doesn't accidently shoot transmission fluid all over the garage ceiling. I'm sleeping late tomorrow and having a big breakfast. Then, on the road again... or just 'on the road' I like Kerouac too... actually Dean Moriarty/Neil Cassidy was the man.

__________________
1985 300D / 175k

WISH LIST
29' HackerCraft - Gentleman's Racer...
http://www.hackerboat.com/html/29__gentleman_s_5.html

I'm glad it's fixed. Is it fair to say that the final diagnosis is that air was getting into the fuel lines?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

So, It's still a mystery what the problem was? Glad your good to go. If your travelling thru north Texas feel free to PM for assistance if needed.

STJames, I'm thinking you learned alittle about old MB diesels. Just think of the money to be made now.

+1 for MS forum!

sounds like the fix was 3 quarts of oil??????

If you have any other issues, give me a call at 360-556-4989 anytime of day, anytime of week ill do what i can to help you.

__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.

We should give this guy some props for working so hard on a mysterious problem. Guys like that are hard to come by. I'd much rather work with someone that doesn't think they know everything already and sees the value in a learning experience. Kudos to you STJAMES!

What's the name of your shop? Where is it? address phone etc.

__________________

1981 300TD "The Green Lantern"
1980 300TD
1983 300D Euro "China Cat"

This has been such an unusual experience I wanted to document the series of events which lead to the customer leaving this morning. I haven't heard from him all day, which I hope is good news. So, here we go!

Day#1: The car would rev up and would stall like a gasoline engine running out of fuel, would open lines at injectors, would crack line at inlet at injector pump, and would add fuel. All of this would happen several times. Rev car up, died, no fuel at injectors, left for the night.

The next morning, I replaced inlet outlet hoses at prefilter. Road tested the car and it ran great! Customer drove it and as the car got warmer it would only run 50 mph. Found multilple leaks, fixed and primed pump and the car ran exactly the same..no change. I opened and bled the system from the prefilter to the canister to the injector pump many, many times and STILL NO CHANGE. Next line of action, added seafoam and diesel fuel to canister filter and bled system...STILL NO CHANGE.

This is where it gets interesting. I added three quarts of oil and went on another road test. The car ran GREAT?? Okay, did the oil have something to do with the injector pump pumping the fuel? I've experienced fuel issues with oil pressure lines on some Fords and other models. Brought the car back to the shop and installed new prefilter but this time I didn't get crazy with pumping the primer pump and the car still ran GREAT. As a matter of fact, the customer said it has never ran this good. Did it have something to do with the oil? Or did the seafoam clean something in the injector pump like the govenor or maybe a internal fuel shut-off valve or is it fixed at all??

In my professional opinion, I simply don't know. However, I can tell you that as I was finishing this message the customer called to let me know he has been driving for the last 10-hours and the car is running GREAT! A happy ending! Thanks for all of your help.

Nappiersautomotive.com has all of my contact information. You may have to search Yahoo to find me. The website is a little out of date but I can't seem to find the time update it. Most of my career was spent working for a large GM dealer in St. Louis. Since opening my business three and a half years I haven't had to advertise and I stay incredibly busy. We are located near a major interstate (I-44) in central Missouri and I seem to attract many stranded motorists. I try to keep in mind that if it were my wife and kids, my mother, father, bother, sister or friend in a similar situation I hope someone would do their best to take care of the them, charge them fairly and get them back on the road. Again, thanks your input.

Roger Nappier

Well Roger it is always discomforting to get something running again and not be really sure what the problem was . This senario does happen in servicing of all types occasionally.

It is really unwelcome as it is normal for it to return and bite us usually. Ten hours is a fair test though. Actually longer than I thought initially might transpire with nothing absolute identified.

The important item is he states it is running better than it ever did so something changed. Without that upside I would have calculated the odds of the problem occuring again as greater..

I doubt if any of our site members are sure of what it was either. I know I cannot even make a good logical guess myself..

Usually these early style diesels do not present with something as odd as what you experienced. You got the exception it seems. Do not hesitate to work on another if it ever comes along. They are pretty straightforward usually. This is proven as even I can fix them.

This site will always post the standard common failures if you have to ask. Again the general run of normal problems on these cars are extremely well known.

Anyways thanks for helping a stranger out and glad to hear you are pretty busy in general. I also hope he will check his base oil before it drops off three quarts again. If you talk to him again or he reads this check your base oil level yourself at every fillup. Only takes a minute. Good habit with all cars as a leak can occur on any brand at anytime. In your case the sudden drop may have been you burning the water off in your oil if car was driven a lot on short runs and never heated up well enough. Just condensation. Then you pounded it on the highway.

I do not know if it fits but the injection pump on those engines can shut down if there is too much blowby. The excess pressure reaches the back of the shutoff diaphram and starts to shut the pump down. I can not think of a way three quarts of oil low could cause this to occur.

Sometimes one can never be sure of anything though. Especially since the problem seemed to dissapear once the oil level was brought back up. It had to be something. The base oil pressure feeds the bottom of the injection pump as well. If enough oil for some reason was not getting into the pump with the oil level low it's a maybe. That engine has no low oil or low oil pressure cutoff circuit.

The activation for the lift pump is activated from the crank in the pump. If the transit rod was dry it might have started to bind for example as it expanded. Long and almost impossible odds but volkswagon aircooled engines would pull that stunt ocasionally as they got hot. The price of him not checking his oil level perhaps?

Thats strange, was the car that low on oil? The oil level wouldn't have affected the IP.

Sounds like an air leak, you most have done something to get it to seal.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Would the oil pressure gage indicate anything when low 3 quarts?

__________________
1985 300D Turbo
"Evolution is God's way of giving upgrades" Francis Collins

Doubt it, maybe on a sharp corner. I don't think those cars have a low oil level light either.

On my 603 the lifters would start to protest, you would get a nice tick, tick, tick.

Shame on the OP for letting it run so low, he should have checked it on a long trip.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Roger:
You're a credit to the human race and if you deal with all your customers and mechanical problems the way you dealt with this one, your business will continue to flourish.
Like everyone else, I am still puzzled. I can see two possible links to other similar problems that have shown up here. People who lose their oil due to catastrophic oil loss have reported here that their cars slow down during this process. I had always assumed that this slowing down was a result of the engine starting to bind up and seize. But given the fact that the symptom appeared in this case when only three quarts low, it doesn't seem that the engine could be beginning to seize. Perhaps in both cases--catastrophic oil loss and 3 quarts low--something else is going on in the IP to slow the car down.

On the other hand, there have been cases here of air leaks into the fuel system that have been very hard to trace down. Perhaps this is just another example of this problem.

Any way, kudos to you for persistent analysis and successful work.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Talked to customer at 10am and car has developed a oil leak at a fitting on engine turbo line?he tightened the fitting and slowed leak.but he said car would rev up by itself and would not shut off unless he put his foot on brake.white smoke out oftail pipe.i told him to pull breather off and look for oil in it it did.i told in to get vac line and hook up at the brown line at fuel shut off and apply vac to see if car would die.he has about 8hr left on his trip just wanted to get info when he calls me back with update.also car has developed a whine noise.maybe turbo or alternator i told to watch battery light to se if it started to flicker or comes on. Thanks roger