1967 230S 6 Cylinder Gasoline To Diesel Swap; What Is Compatible? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Cervan · #31 08-04-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Your finney would be abut 3000#, right? per Mercedes us models, a 116 sd is 3850. Not to split hairs, that still is a lot lighter. YOu will be hankering for a taller rear end if you don't change it.

Yipes! I just looked up your ratio. According to my buyer's guide book its a 410!

I would have thought it would be a 392 at the steepest!

The 300se is only a 392 according to that.

Tom W

He might have trouble keeping at 60 with that low of a ratio.

Squiggle Dog · #32 08-04-2008, 04:14 PM

I know, it won't be any good on the freeway until I put in different rear end gears. I will research this to see what the insides of the differential look like and then see if I can find some gears that are the proper ratio. It would be SO nice if just the ring gear and pinion gear out of the 300SD differential would fit into the fintail.

Squiggle Dog · #33 08-09-2008, 01:01 AM

The turbo diesel engine came out of the 300SD today and then the transmission came off of the engine. There were only a few small pieces of what was left of the triangular flex plate. It had broken up and chewed up the torque converter and bellhousing. But the engine and back plate were in good condition, so I am happy.

I took the back plate off the engine and put it up to the 4 speed manual transmission--a perfect fit! The back plate has the same hole pattern as the one from the gasoline engine (with a few extra holes and a lift hook on top). Same thickness, too.

Now I know the engine will bolt up to the manual bellhousing, so I am very happy! I will need to find a proper flywheel and possibly a clutch to go with it.

bgkast · #34 08-09-2008, 01:17 AM

I used a flywheel off of a 240D on mine. Drop by the Seattle Get Together tomorrow if you want to take a look at how I did mine (it's a 4 on the floor in a W123, not a column shift though)

Squiggle Dog · #35 08-10-2008, 02:47 AM

The 617 engine is in the fintail! It bolted right up to the manual transmission in the car (but not permanently, of course--no flywheel or clutch!).

The engine seems to be the same size as the 6 cylinder engine that came out of it. The mounting arms are directly above the crossmember with the engine bolted to the transmission which still had the propeller shaft and linkage attached. It looks that I may not need alter shaft and linkage length after all!

It appears I can just attach the 617 engine mounts and shock absorbers and the engine will be attached like it should. Of course, there will be some drilling, cutting, and welding involved to get those parts onto the crossmember.

There are a few problems I have encountered that I was prepared for anyway. One of them is relocating the oil tower; it is right up against the shift linkage and brake booster. I will probably move it up front where the power steering pump used to be and then fabricate some hard lines from its original mounting location to its new location. That way both my fuel and oil filter will be in the same area up front and easily accessible.

I will need to locate a radiator/oil cooler assembly. I think that certain 108s came with oil coolers mounted to the radiator, and I know that the 108 radiators fit the fintails because this fintail used to have one--but it had big holes in it.

Also, I will need to find more suitable differential gears. I haven't checked, but I think I have a 4.08 gear set. I will probably need a lower number such as a 2.88. I'm still learning about Mercedes axles, but I think only gear clusters from swing axles will fit my car. Also, I have read that it is preferable to swap an entire axle rather than gears only (I could benefit, then, from 4 wheel disc brakes).

I think I need to look toward the 108 body style for an axle, which I believe would be identical to mine other than the addition of disc brakes and a possible difference of gear ratio. I imagine a lower number ratio will be hard to find. I wonder if an offroad shop could get me a set of gears with the proper number of teeth to install in the carrier...

I am curious to see how close the W116 diesel exhaust compares with the W111 exhaust. I imagine they are similar in size and length, with the exception of the diameter of the pipe and that the diesel exhaust kicks off to the driver side at the end. Some relocation of mounting brackets and the body cutout may be called for.

t walgamuth · #36 08-10-2008, 06:01 AM

I suggest looking at tilting the engine a few degrees instead of relocating the oil tower.

I did this on a BMW BAvaria that I had in which I installed a euro four barrell in place of the two two barrells that came on it. I eventually had about a 3/8 inch stack of washers betweent the motor mount and the bracket on the engine, IIRC.

It sounds as if you're going to be doing some fabrication in the mount area anyway.

Tom W

Squiggle Dog · #37 08-10-2008, 12:58 PM

That's certainly thinking outside the box, but the oil tower is resting against these parts with the engine angled. If the engine was parallel with the rest of the car then even tilting the engine wouldn't bring it far enough away for the parts to clear, let alone not hit each other as the engine vibrates. It would also look a little strange with the oil pan not being level with the skid pan. The stock location makes oil changes bothersome as well.

I marked the automatic flywheel in relation to the crankshaft. There is what looks like the lowercase letter d marked on the crankshaft, but I haven't looked closely to see if there is a factory mark on the flywheel. It got a little scarred from when the flex plate shattered, so hopefully that doesn't affect its balance much. When I find the proper flywheel (from a 200D-240D W115 or W123 or even better a 300D) I will have it match balanced and then install it in its proper position.

Squiggle Dog · #38 08-11-2008, 10:44 PM

There was a 108 at the Pull-A-Part, but the axle gear ratio was 3.92, not what I want.

I did pull the radiator/oil cooler assembly, but the radiator is different than the 108 radiator that was in the fintail. The radiator alone almost fits in the opening, but it has these bump/hook things that get in the way. The opening in the fintail is not wide enough to fit both oil cooler (which also has those bumps on one side) and radiator in. So my plan of installing a 108 radiator and oil cooler won't work.

I used to have a radiator out of a non-oil cooler 108 and it had slots to bolt it in place and it fit perfect. I was thinking the oil cooled 108s would have a narrower radiator so the oil cooler would fit, but it looks like they just made the opening on the body wider and added bumps on each side. Oh well. Now I am wondering if I should sell the set or take them back in for a refund.

t walgamuth · #39 08-12-2008, 06:03 AM

You can also put a strap on the engine to reduce movement when things are close.

The only way I would change the oil tower is if changing to the cannister that faces down like on a 115 would work. Doing a makeshift remote filter location would give me the willies and I would worry about losing a hose and losing the engine.

Tom W

Squiggle Dog · #40 08-12-2008, 10:18 AM

I might look into using the earlier style canister. If I relocated the oil tower I would use hard lines instead of flexible ones.

bgkast · #41 08-12-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Doing a makeshift remote filter location would give me the willies and I would worry about losing a hose and losing the engine.

Tom W

Why? The stock system uses hoses.

tomas_maly · #42 12-08-2011, 09:29 PM

I don't know a thing about transmissions, but have access to a 420SEL and wanted to put a 300SD (OM617) engine into it, and have been told there will need to be some transmission modifications.... I'm curious what needs to be done to get it to work/perform similarly and how I might go about learning about transmissions (to play with these)? The original diesel transmission died, but might have some salvageable parts if they should be swapped.

strelnik · #43 12-08-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgkast

I used a flywheel off of a 240D on mine. Drop by the Seattle Get Together tomorrow if you want to take a look at how I did mine (it's a 4 on the floor in a W123, not a column shift though)

It's too bad you are so far away, one of my projects of summer will be a 123 with stick shift (?) on the floor into the body of a 1950 170 DS 4 door