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  #16  
Old 08-08-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re-evaluating View Post
So are you guys just clipping off the connector that leads to the GPs and connecting those wires to the output of the ford solenoid? I haven't looked at it yet, but my car is in another state where my step son left it with it smoking the wire bridge on the GP relay. He left it at Walmart so this might be an easy way to get the car home where I can address it. My question would be are you cutting that connector out and putting terminals on to use the ford solenoid? It is unclear why it would be smoking as I haven't heard of GPs shorting (they normally go open when they fail) so I am guessing the relay has just failed or shorted a wire somewhere. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated as well. I am headed out there this evening to get the car.
I believe from your other Thread you decided to get the car started and disconect the (+) wire to the Glow Plug Relay and fix it when you get home.
On my Volvo I took a 6 of the glow plug wires and hooked them to one big wire to the Starter type Relay. You might want to put a fues in your system if you decide to do it; mine has no fuse.
Also the Volvo did not have a special connector with individual little sockets to each glow plug as in the Mercedes.

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  #17  
Old 08-08-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Manually operating the plugs with an external switch and starter relay will not shorten the life of the glow plugs, provided that you use a momentary switch or button. If you use a traditional single throw switch, it's a certainty that your one moment of forgefulness will kill all five plugs in about 15 minutes.

Question from a newbie: Couldn't I just use a button that lets electricity flow to the plugs while held down? Is that a "momentary" button? Then I could just manually glow for 15 seconds when it's below freezing, 5 seconds when it's cool out and not at all in August.

I guess I would need to know:
*how many amps do the 4 plugs in my 616 engine draw?
*I assume I need to put a fuse in this line if I'm going to bypass the MB relay altogether? If so, how far above the "normal" amperage do I make the fuse?
*What's a good place to get a button-type switch that can handle this much current?

[edit]
I see from fastlane that my strip fuse is either 50 or 80 amps, depending on chassis number. That would be a complication since the normal automotive fuses I've seen in auto parts stores only go up to 25 amps. So not only do I need a switch that can handle 80 amps, but a way to add an inline fuse as well.
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Last edited by herring; 08-08-2008 at 05:52 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2008, 05:46 PM
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Relay

That is the point of having a relay. With the relay you aren't sending the high current through the switch, just a very small current to pull the relay contacts in.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2008, 07:14 PM
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I routed the wire back to the relay through the GP light in the cabin, not that the relay isn't loud enough so you can tell when the GPs are activated

Before I went to the new style GPs I didn't use a relay but with the new 80 amp GPs I went with the relay and changed the strip fuse from the 50 amp to the 80 amp.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Last edited by Stevo; 08-08-2008 at 07:19 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2008, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
I routed the wire back to the relay through the GP light in the cabin, not that the relay isn't loud enough so you can tell when the GPs are activated

Before I went to the new style GPs I didn't use a relay but with the new 80 amp GPs I went with the relay and changed the strip fuse from the 50 amp to the 80 amp.
Did you change from the Loop style to Pencil style Glow Plugs?
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  #21  
Old 08-08-2008, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coonerboy View Post
That is the point of having a relay. With the relay you aren't sending the high current through the switch, just a very small current to pull the relay contacts in.
OK. So, any ideas where I could get a relay appropriate to what I'm trying to do (bypass the ignition-triggered glow relay in favor of a push-button)?
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2008, 11:54 PM
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relay

Get a couple of fender mounted ford type starter relays...run half of the gp's through one and the rest through the other & you will have plenty of load carrying capacity....about 10 bucks each.....one relay would work..... but best not to max out any auto zone part....just a quick easy fix to get you going.....
The (parallel) gp's start drawing about 25-30 amps each and taper off quickly to around 10 to 15 depending on battery and wiring conditions..... I just put a big ole mombo concrete truck starter relay on my 300D....200A continuous duty....a bit more than needed but I like electrical component headroom......
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2008, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Did you change from the Loop style to Pencil style Glow Plugs?
Yes, actually I rebuilt an 80 engine and swapped it in, which used the new style GPs.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellit View Post
Get a couple of fender mounted ford type starter relays...run half of the gp's through one and the rest through the other & you will have plenty of load carrying capacity....about 10 bucks each.....one relay would work..... but best not to max out any auto zone part....just a quick easy fix to get you going.....
The (parallel) gp's start drawing about 25-30 amps each and taper off quickly to around 10 to 15 depending on battery and wiring conditions..... I just put a big ole mombo concrete truck starter relay on my 300D....200A continuous duty....a bit more than needed but I like electrical component headroom......
No need for 2 Relays; have been using 1 Relay for 6 Glow Plugs since 1992 with no problem and it is still going strong.
A starter easily pulls 3X the Amps that the Glow Plugs do.
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2008, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by herring View Post
OK. So, any ideas where I could get a relay appropriate to what I'm trying to do (bypass the ignition-triggered glow relay in favor of a push-button)?
Any autoparts store should have them. In the past they were on; I think all of the American made Ford cars and Pickups. They cost in the $20-$30 range.
If you want to look at some pics of them do a search on Ebay. Some of them look different on the out side than the one in my pic.
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  #26  
Old 08-11-2008, 05:28 AM
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bypass pre glow relay

G'day all I am not a regular poster ,but thought i would tell of my experiences of bypassing the dreaded pre glow .I have owned my 1977 300D since 1990 ,and would you believe it is my only car now that I have retired ,what a risk taker!!!!
The PO traded this car( as I found out later) because the battery was often flat.This happened to me a couple of times,the last time when a couple of hundred miles from home ,it started ok but then indicator lights ,horn,radio would not work,so lifted the hood (as you do) and discovered smoking wires to the glow plugs, it did not take a genius to make out the problem,so disconnected the braided copper wire from the no 1 plug to the engine block and made it home .next day at work (battery electric forklift company) discussed problem with tec's and soon came up with remedy ,bypass the damned timer and substitute with solenoid and switch,however first solenoid used was off a CAV starter motor this lasted only a few days ,next put in a solenoid of a 12 V pallet lifter rated at 400amps ,this has lasted nearly 18 years and makes a mighty clonk when the contacts close .the only problem i have had is I only used a normal toggle switch ,and you can guess what has happened on numerous occasions,I have been too lazy to put in a push switch !! one day !!
I forgot to say that when I priced a new timer all those years ago it was 600 dollars (Australian)
Despite having the glow plugs left on,on numerous times for 10 or so minutes and once for 2 hours at shopping centre I have never replaced a glow plug
My Wife has now got the habit of saying "is that switch off "
It has been a great car I hope I never have to part with it ...
cheers Hartley
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2008, 06:16 AM
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So where do you put the flat fuse?? in line between the solenoid and the
gp or between battery and solenoid. Can i run one wire from solenoid to gp to gp to gp
to gp to gp or do i have to run a separate wire from the solenoid to each
individual gp??
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2008, 06:54 AM
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Location: Flowood Mississippi
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Glow Plugs

OB1.....
Depends on what type glow plugs you have ...the old series type or the newer parallel type ?.....parallel type each need individual wire for best operation(12 volts to each one)....series type have buss bars between them.... they are part of a resistive network....12 volts on the series plugs individually will burn them out....

It is always best to fuse any circuit as close to the voltage source (Battery) as possible.....no need to burn up the long cable feeding a remote fuse in case of a short...
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1978 Yellow 300D (The Mustard Toad)
1980 Blue 240D (The Iron Toad)
1989 Grey Mitsu.4WD Mighty Max Pickup (Needs a Diesel transplant bad)

(Open the pod bay doors HAL)
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartley View Post
G'day all I am not a regular poster ,but thought i would tell of my experiences of bypassing the dreaded pre glow .I have owned my 1977 300D since 1990 ,and would you believe it is my only car now that I have retired ,what a risk taker!!!!
The PO traded this car( as I found out later) because the battery was often flat.This happened to me a couple of times,the last time when a couple of hundred miles from home ,it started ok but then indicator lights ,horn,radio would not work,so lifted the hood (as you do) and discovered smoking wires to the glow plugs, it did not take a genius to make out the problem,so disconnected the braided copper wire from the no 1 plug to the engine block and made it home .next day at work (battery electric forklift company) discussed problem with tec's and soon came up with remedy ,bypass the damned timer and substitute with solenoid and switch,however first solenoid used was off a CAV starter motor this lasted only a few days ,next put in a solenoid of a 12 V pallet lifter rated at 400amps ,this has lasted nearly 18 years and makes a mighty clonk when the contacts close .the only problem i have had is I only used a normal toggle switch ,and you can guess what has happened on numerous occasions,I have been too lazy to put in a push switch !! one day !!
I forgot to say that when I priced a new timer all those years ago it was 600 dollars (Australian)
Despite having the glow plugs left on,on numerous times for 10 or so minutes and once for 2 hours at shopping centre I have never replaced a glow plug
My Wife has now got the habit of saying "is that switch off "
It has been a great car I hope I never have to part with it ...
cheers Hartley
The push button switch I use is a 15 amp "chepo" from Napa and fits in a 5/8 hole I drilled in the lower part of the dash just above my left knee so I can crank while pushing it. No worries about leaving it on
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #30  
Old 08-11-2008, 12:53 PM
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What I found

When I got over there Friday night I did just as I had discribed glowed it then cut the wire and it ran with out all the smoking. The cause of the problem was the #6 injector line broke at the IP AGAIN!!!! I just paid $100 for the used line and shipping and this one broke the 3rd time driving it, in the same place the other one did. So the relay was fuel soaked and the boy didn't notice that strong smell of diesel in the car or the rough running that I noticed when it broke on me. At any rate it is in the driveway waiting for parts again.

Here is a thought about the control wire for the ford style solenoid that might keep you out of trouble. I can't say I have thought this completely through but let me know what you think if you want to keep the relay on a timer and off a toggle switch.
When I bought the car the woman that owned it told me how to start it "turn the key on and wait for the buzzer to go off then crank it up" Well that buzzer is for the seat belt and it buzzes about 30 seconds and goes off. It will also stay off if you have your seat belt on so would make a kind of fail safe for you guys that don't remember to turn it off. I am sure it would be easy enough to find the wire that triggers the buzzer and use that to trigger the relay with no problem. Just a thought let me know what you think. Dave

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