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  #121  
Old 01-13-2010, 02:51 PM
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All the new OE/OEM pumps are the updated style, part number 000-230-31-65. Current MSRP is $374 at the dealership, most aftermarket sources are about $300. Avoid the no-name Taiwan copies that are ~$100, those things are junk.




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  #122  
Old 01-22-2010, 06:47 PM
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Question Vacuum pump ?

my car has the 603 230 01 65 vacuum pump, it has the torx screws is this one safe? it has Peirberg cast in the side of the pump so should not be a Taiwan/China junker. Don
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  #123  
Old 01-22-2010, 07:26 PM
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Only way to know for sure is to check the roller bearing. Some of the suspect pumps came w/torx screws installed on cars from the factory. There are pics in a thread somewhere showing the difference. If the original pump has 250K it needs changing regardless.
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  #124  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:43 AM
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I read the above with interest. My 1995 engine which is a replacement with a sugested 80,000 miles (according to Dronsfields the breakers that supplied it) the vacuum pump failed earlier this week. I have driven 40 miles since the brakes gear change and engine stop function went wrong.
I did here a light clattering in the engine shortly before but by the time I switched off the radio it was as normal under the bonnet.
Brake failure alerted me to there being trouble.
I had to get to an appointment so drove carefully with lack of brake assistance.
Now having read much on various forums decised to buy a pump onspec and today removed the broken pump.
my pump is peidmont date stamped 1995
the replacement is a Vemo germany part.
I had never heard of this brand and am wary of chinese copy parts.

Are Vemo generally a good brand?

certainly matching photos of this part against other parts they look the same and GSF are a trustworthy supplier here in UK.
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  #125  
Old 02-07-2011, 07:02 PM
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1987 300D -- OM603 gremlins and goblins

Gentlemen,

After owning and driving a couple of 240Ds we migrated to a 300D. We drove it until the transmission gave out. Fast forward a couple of years:

Last summer we bought an '87 300SDL. It was certainly not in pristine condition but we bought it pretty cheap and up to now have not had to spend any money on it (knock on wood) although I suspect I'd better do so and soon. This car has had the trap oxidizer campaign down somewhere in the distant past.

Then, a few days ago, I bought an '87 300D for $600. This car has not had the trap oxidizer campaign done. The car has been off the road for several years and, beyond a doubt, has issues.

I have read several threads on this board that have been very valuable in helping me educate myself as to what the most likely issues are with both these cars. I was aware of the trap oxidizer / #14 cylinder head issue from since I bought the 300SDL last summer. But after doing additional research here and elsewhere I am now aware of the vacuum pump / injection pump timing drive mechanism issue, as well.

So this post is focused on the 300D and its purpose is to seek guidance on how to identify and analyze the issues before I start bleeding money on the car. Here's what I've done up to now:

This afternoon I drained the motor oil. I did not see any ball bearings or shrapnel plop into the drain container nor did I find any upon decanting the oil back into the jugs. Therefore, I am hopeful that the vacuum pump is still intact;

I also removed the air filter. I suppose I've seen a dirtier filter in my life but I don't remember when. The filter says "made in west germany". So there's a clue on how recently maintenance has been done on that item.

I brought the car home (about a one mile drive) on a very very cold day. The car started right up even though it has been off the road for several years. During that drive the transmission acted very wonky. As soon as the new air filter arrives tomorrow I will replace it and the fuel filter(s) then service the transmission in the hopes that it will smooth out and live happily every after (hope springs eternal!)

After I got the car home, even though it pained me to run the engine on old oil, I did so for the purpose of circulating fresh antifreeze into the system, which was low. The car has some coolant leaks. I haven't traced the source or sources with certainty but I haven't yet seen anything to make me think that the engine block is cracked or anything truly terrible like that.

However, I DID see some water dripping out of the exhaust pipe. Again, I haven't yet investigated completely but my first impression is that this water did NOT look or smell of antifreeze. Nevertheless, since it has the original head and the original trap oxidizer I am braced to yet discover some bad news.

My plan is to get fresh oil, fresh filters, and fresh fluids into the car, wash off as much grease and grime from the engine. I will then run the engine some more while I poke around with a flash light. The car has some fuel leaks but I THINK these are coming from the injector overflow hoses, all of which are brittle from age.

Even if the head is cracked I am not opposed to plunking down the $2500 for a late model head. However, I hope to add together ALL of the likely problems (such as vacuum pump, drive gear, etc.) in order to make an informed decision. Since we also have a 300SDL that very likely needs some of the same or similar attention the idea is to "cut my teeth" on the 300D. If bring the car back to life becomes cost prohibitive I hope to be able to simply rob the parts from it and migrate them to the 300SDL as needed.

If anybody has any specific suggestions or advice on how to approach these (or any other) issues I will genuinely appreciate the feedback.

Thanks in advance

Vernon
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  #126  
Old 02-07-2011, 09:36 PM
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Water dripping from the exhaust is probably not head related, that should be steam. More likely just condensation from your exhaust in a cold exhaust system, finally getting a chance to come out the end.

The vacuum pump might or might not be an issue. Do a search, if you can see bolt heads on the vacuum-pump cover then it is the newer style. You can also pull the pump fairly easily, and check the condition of the bearings.
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  #127  
Old 02-09-2011, 02:44 PM
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Vernon, congrats on the new ride! In case you haven't read it, check out this article with more info about common issues with the 1987 300D/TD.

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  #128  
Old 04-16-2011, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshineybike View Post
I read the above with interest. My 1995 engine which is a replacement with a sugested 80,000 miles (according to Dronsfields the breakers that supplied it) the vacuum pump failed earlier this week. I have driven 40 miles since the brakes gear change and engine stop function went wrong.
I did here a light clattering in the engine shortly before but by the time I switched off the radio it was as normal under the bonnet.
Brake failure alerted me to there being trouble.
I had to get to an appointment so drove carefully with lack of brake assistance.
Now having read much on various forums decised to buy a pump onspec and today removed the broken pump.
my pump is peidmont date stamped 1995
the replacement is a Vemo germany part.
I had never heard of this brand and am wary of chinese copy parts.

Are Vemo generally a good brand?

certainly matching photos of this part against other parts they look the same and GSF are a trustworthy supplier here in UK.
No replies to this post but today after only 2000 miles the pump failed!
GSF are happy to replace it. But what happened? there is a fixing screw within the piston chamber and it came adrift from the piston connecting rod, blew itself through the front pressed steel caseing and so the pump stopped sucking and the brakes failed luckily the guy that pulled out in front of me was driving a narrow car, i missed him by a few inches!
Vemo pumps?
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  #129  
Old 04-16-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshineybike View Post
No replies to this post but today after only 2000 miles the pump failed!
GSF are happy to replace it. But what happened? there is a fixing screw within the piston chamber and it came adrift from the piston connecting rod, blew itself through the front pressed steel caseing and so the pump stopped sucking and the brakes failed luckily the guy that pulled out in front of me was driving a narrow car, i missed him by a few inches!
Vemo pumps?
More info. What Car/Engine amd year is it and who made the Vacuum Pump?
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  #130  
Old 04-16-2011, 10:46 AM
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Is this a reciprocating or rotary pump? Did you check the condition of the vacuum pump drive mechanism in/on the injection pump sprocket before installing the replacement pump? The earlier failure might have damaged the IP timer.

Sixto
87 300D
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  #131  
Old 04-21-2011, 10:48 AM
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Location: Walton On Thames, Surrey UK
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early vacuum pump failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
More info. What Car/Engine amd year is it and who made the Vacuum Pump?
A 300D estate last model W124 with multivalve engine 1995
the new pump which already failed is by vemo.
2500 miles to failure, the piston fixing screw came out the front housing.

i found this pdf which I hope is attached?
http://www.autoteile-meile.net/TecDocImages/0005/1000/77/18/38/100077183803.PDF
I hope a photo of the damaged pump. will not load so heres a link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33646233@N04/5640824516

Since then I found this on 123sparepartsdot co dot uk. the price seems good too.
I cut this text from the PDF they link to, looks like the guys that sold me the pump didnt need to give a refund after all?

Also useful to see how many other cars since 1968 used a similar pump.

Potential complaints:
• Insufficient vacuum
• Rattling noises
• Feed roller on the vacuum pump
worn
• Vacuum pump housing
broken
• Damage to the vacuum pump
cam follower
This type of piston or membrane vacuum pump is driven by a cam disk ("running curve") which is mounted on the injection timing mechanism of the fuel injection pump.
The cam roller is mounted in a cam follower and follows the running track of
this cam disk. The lifting movement of the cam roller is transferred to the vacuum pump pistons.

These vacuum pumps are installed in large numbers in Diesel vehicles from
Mercedes-Benz, such as the older models W123, W124, W201 and W202.
Until around the mid-1990s, the cam disk on the injection timing mechanism
could be replaced separately. Today, the injection timing mechanism can only be replaced complete with the cam disk.
If the cam disk is worn, the cam roller of the cam follower starts to “jump”, gains notches as a result of the impact and causes rattling noises. In the worst case scenario, the feed roller can fall apart and the individual parts can get in to the primary drive.
When installing a new vacuum pump, the surface of the cam disk on the
injection timing mechanism must always be checked as well.
If the cam disk is damaged or worn, the injection timing mechanism must also be replaced, as the new vacuum pump will otherwise be damaged after just a short mileage.
The sliding surface of a worn cam disk must never be ground or polished.
The sliding surface has a defined surface roughness, which is required for a non-positive connection with the cam roller.
If the sliding surface is polished or ground, it is possible that the impeller will
no longer turn with it. This will result in the impeller being worn on just one side.
The chips generated by the friction then cause more damage.

Further notes on installation

• Only install a vacuum pump.
with the cam in low position and screw on crosswise.
• Always use a new seal.
• For older vehicles, the assembly basket must be removed before
installing a new vacuum pump. It is located on the crankcase in front of the
injection timing mechanism
The assembly basket is not used in later models

The dealer took back the Vemo part without question.
I am sure though the failure was caused by not replacing the timing cam plate which is worn.

There is also an ominous note for the bodgers out there....'The cam disk should be sent in to enable complaints to be assessed.'

Last edited by bigshineybike; 04-21-2011 at 01:41 PM.
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  #132  
Old 04-21-2011, 11:03 AM
scottmcphee's Avatar
1987 w124 300D
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 1,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by verntuck View Post
Gentlemen,

After owning and driving a couple of 240Ds we migrated to a 300D. We drove it until the transmission gave out. Fast forward a couple of years:

Last summer we bought an '87 300SDL. It was certainly not in pristine condition but we bought it pretty cheap and up to now have not had to spend any money on it (knock on wood) although I suspect I'd better do so and soon. This car has had the trap oxidizer campaign down somewhere in the distant past.

Then, a few days ago, I bought an '87 300D for $600. This car has not had the trap oxidizer campaign done. The car has been off the road for several years and, beyond a doubt, has issues.

I have read several threads on this board that have been very valuable in helping me educate myself as to what the most likely issues are with both these cars. I was aware of the trap oxidizer / #14 cylinder head issue from since I bought the 300SDL last summer. But after doing additional research here and elsewhere I am now aware of the vacuum pump / injection pump timing drive mechanism issue, as well.

So this post is focused on the 300D and its purpose is to seek guidance on how to identify and analyze the issues before I start bleeding money on the car. Here's what I've done up to now:

This afternoon I drained the motor oil. I did not see any ball bearings or shrapnel plop into the drain container nor did I find any upon decanting the oil back into the jugs. Therefore, I am hopeful that the vacuum pump is still intact;

I also removed the air filter. I suppose I've seen a dirtier filter in my life but I don't remember when. The filter says "made in west germany". So there's a clue on how recently maintenance has been done on that item.

I brought the car home (about a one mile drive) on a very very cold day. The car started right up even though it has been off the road for several years. During that drive the transmission acted very wonky. As soon as the new air filter arrives tomorrow I will replace it and the fuel filter(s) then service the transmission in the hopes that it will smooth out and live happily every after (hope springs eternal!)

After I got the car home, even though it pained me to run the engine on old oil, I did so for the purpose of circulating fresh antifreeze into the system, which was low. The car has some coolant leaks. I haven't traced the source or sources with certainty but I haven't yet seen anything to make me think that the engine block is cracked or anything truly terrible like that.

However, I DID see some water dripping out of the exhaust pipe. Again, I haven't yet investigated completely but my first impression is that this water did NOT look or smell of antifreeze. Nevertheless, since it has the original head and the original trap oxidizer I am braced to yet discover some bad news.

My plan is to get fresh oil, fresh filters, and fresh fluids into the car, wash off as much grease and grime from the engine. I will then run the engine some more while I poke around with a flash light. The car has some fuel leaks but I THINK these are coming from the injector overflow hoses, all of which are brittle from age.

Even if the head is cracked I am not opposed to plunking down the $2500 for a late model head. However, I hope to add together ALL of the likely problems (such as vacuum pump, drive gear, etc.) in order to make an informed decision. Since we also have a 300SDL that very likely needs some of the same or similar attention the idea is to "cut my teeth" on the 300D. If bring the car back to life becomes cost prohibitive I hope to be able to simply rob the parts from it and migrate them to the 300SDL as needed.

If anybody has any specific suggestions or advice on how to approach these (or any other) issues I will genuinely appreciate the feedback.

Thanks in advance

Vernon

Vern, this deserves it's own thread maybe. Start one!
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1987 300D
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  #133  
Old 04-21-2011, 06:28 PM
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Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 125
Hello Vernon,

I used to have a 250D, and went through 3 or 4 pumps off ebay which failed in exactly the same way as the one in your picture did. Each time I came very close to having an accident, and got another one under warranty. Eventually I complained big time and got a refund, then got a second hand pump (with the updated bearing) from a guy on ebay. The vacuum was stronger, the pump quieter, and it worked fine until I crashed and wrote off the car.

My point is, if that one has failed, don't get another one and expect it to be fine. Just get a good second hand pump, or a new pierburg one.
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  #134  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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Location: Walton On Thames, Surrey UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tombance View Post
Hello Vernon,

I used to have a 250D, and went through 3 or 4 pumps off ebay which failed in exactly the same way as the one in your picture did. Each time I came very close to having an accident, and got another one under warranty. Eventually I complained big time and got a refund, then got a second hand pump (with the updated bearing) from a guy on ebay. The vacuum was stronger, the pump quieter, and it worked fine until I crashed and wrote off the car.

My point is, if that one has failed, don't get another one and expect it to be fine. Just get a good second hand pump, or a new pierburg one.
No NO. please read that post of mine just two up from here. You need to consider the cam plate.
Bear in Mind Pierburg are aware of the reasons for failure and may not offer a replacement (at £250 each!)
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  #135  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:50 PM
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Recycled

Hope owners realize this is potentially lethal to your engine.


.

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