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-   -   Our 123/126 A/C systems take too long to cool down, why (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/231449-our-123-126-c-systems-take-too-long-cool-down-why.html)

Eric Eliel 08-26-2008 09:53 PM

Our 123/126 A/C systems take too long to cool down, why
 
Hi guys,

Looking to start a discussion about the length of time it takes the A/C to start blowing cold cold cold....blah.......

From an engineering standpoint, why does the wife's '02 Explorer start blowing cold almost immediately and both of my 123's have taken some street time to start blowing cold (cold like you know you're on the right track)? It can't be the 134 vs R12 debate. The Ford runs R134....so I'm throwing it out there. And just for the record, my 123 will blow 35F on Freeze 12, just takes awhile to get there. Yeah I know the system is 25yo and the evaporator is probably dirty. What else?

i think these car's A/C systems have not been their strong point. Flame on kids:

Matt L 08-26-2008 10:29 PM

The AC system was not your car's strong point.

The W210 factory 134a system starts cooling nearly instantly.

bustedbenz 08-26-2008 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Eliel (Post 1948869)
Hi guys,
It can't be the 134 vs R12 debate. The Ford runs R134....

It's not the refrigerant necessarily, but simply the systems themselves. The Ford system was designed to be large enough to do the job plus a little extra. It's simply a higher capacity cooling apparatus.

The apparatus they put on the Mercedes, for whatever reason, is simply trying to do a job bigger than it's capable of, due to being designed to a less stringent requirement than that which we'd prefer it to be fulfilling.

compress ignite 08-26-2008 11:16 PM

I.e.
 
Ask any German driver if Frostbite type A/C is/was ever at the top of His/Her list
of most important attributes for an automobile.

Wasn't until somebody dragged somebody else (maybe Werner Von Braun was the dragee) out to Death valley at Summers height that word filtered back to
Deutschland that a refrigeration system would be appropriate in a luxury Auto.

RANT: You can,with a little effort,have your MB deliver Frosty Air Instantly...
1.Parallel Flow Condenser (As Large As YOU can STUFF in front of the Radiator).
2.NEW (NOT REMAN) High capacity Compressor.
3.Clean,Clean,Clean:Evaporator,Condenser ,RADIATOR,System Hoses,Etc.
4.Nylog for the New O-Rings.
5.NEW SEALED Receiver/Dryer.
6.Vacuum Overnight.'Holds vacuum? Then:
7.Pressure test with Nitrogen. O.K.? Then:
8.Re-Vacuum after Nitrogen is out.
9.Fill with the proper amount of R-12 and Lubricant.
10. Make sure you have "Long Johns (or Janes)" on.

TylerH860 08-26-2008 11:23 PM

I've always found my AC to be adequate.

JimmyL 08-26-2008 11:39 PM

I can start my F150 out in the driveway, leave it sitting there, come back in 5-10 minutes and the cab is freezing. {with temps in 90's or 100s}
Drive the Mercedes home, start with the interior cold, leave it sitting in the driveway and in 5 minutes it's up over 60 degrees. That is all of them with each type of refrigerant.
Condenser and evap are simply inadequate......

pj67coll 08-26-2008 11:54 PM

Hmmm. So then along the lines of Compressignite's post above it should be possible to retrofit almost any Mercedes from a Ponton on down with a custom A/C system that really will live up to the requirements of life in oh, say, Phoenix AZ for example.

- Peter.

Matt L 08-27-2008 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll (Post 1948958)
Hmmm. So then along the lines of Compressignite's post above it should be possible to retrofit almost any Mercedes from a Ponton on down with a custom A/C system that really will live up to the requirements of life in oh, say, Phoenix AZ for example.

- Peter.

Of course it is possible. That doesn't mean that it will be inexpensive.

bustedbenz 08-27-2008 12:13 AM

Exactly. I have always found mine woefully inadequate but I have too many other places my money needs to stretch to.

Eric Eliel 08-27-2008 01:46 AM

The window tint on the back half of the car helped. The dark Orient Red paint in the summer doesn't help.

compu_85 08-27-2008 02:25 AM

The AC on mine is great when moving. When stopped the temp creeps up to 60*F on hot days. No, it's not the rad fan(s), both electric ones work and the belt fan is new.

The system in my 99.5 TDI (which got a new $900 compressor in 2005) blows only slightly colder. The big difference is at idle. When underway there is almost no difference. The Benz does seem to cool the interior quicker. Perhaps because the dash is 1/2 the size?

-Jason

vstech 08-27-2008 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite (Post 1948930)
Ask any German driver if Frostbite type A/C is/was ever at the top of His/Her list
of most important attributes for an automobile.

Wasn't until somebody dragged somebody else (maybe Werner Von Braun was the dragee) out to Death valley at Summers height that word filtered back to
Deutschland that a refrigeration system would be appropriate in a luxury Auto.

RANT: You can,with a little effort,have your MB deliver Frosty Air Instantly...
1.Parallel Flow Condenser (As Large As YOU can STUFF in front of the Radiator).
2.NEW (NOT REMAN) High capacity Compressor.
3.Clean,Clean,Clean:Evaporator,Condenser ,RADIATOR,System Hoses,Etc.
4.Nylog for the New O-Rings.
5.NEW SEALED Receiver/Dryer.
6.Vacuum Overnight.'Holds vacuum? Then:
7.Pressure test with Nitrogen. O.K.? Then:
8.Re-Vacuum after Nitrogen is out.
9.Fill with the proper amount of R-12 and Lubricant.
10. Make sure you have "Long Johns (or Janes)" on.

NEVER! I repeat NEVER test a system with vacuum... test with nitrogen FIRST!!!!!
if you test with vacuum, and it does not hold you have just ruined your drier!
look. think learn!
testing with vacuum is stupid stupid stupid.
it's only at most 14.7 psi differential from atmospheric pressure.
a HUGE leak will not show up with vacuum on a crappy charging manifold.
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF you have a DIGITAL micron gauge, AND AND AND you have experience with charging rates and vacuum rates of drop, you can get a feel for a tight system, BUT nitrogen is WAAAAAAAAAAY safer and easier to test for a leak.
PLEASE get it through your heads. DO NOT TEST FOR LEAKS WITH VACUUM!@!!!!!!

Eric Eliel 08-27-2008 02:25 PM

Anyone want to develop a 2 to 3 minute timed electrical relay that would automatically turn the aux fan on when the A/C is turned on? Kinda of like jump starting the A/C cooling process.

Think this would help?

Matt L 08-27-2008 02:37 PM

I don't think it would help. Instead, insure that your refrigerant pressure and temperature sensors are working, and start the fan when appropriate.

Eric Eliel 08-27-2008 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L (Post 1949439)
and start the fan when appropriate.

Huh? The electrical fan in front of the radiator starts on its own when the temperature switch is triggered by the heat sensor in the receiver/dryer. You can't turn it on manually. My idea would be to design a circuit that would starting the condensor fan cooling process immediately but temporarily to get the condensor cooling faster.


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