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  #1  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:20 PM
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Why did MB design the 616/617 with a non-crossflow head?

I've been wondering about this. By the mid-60's almost all the cars I can remember, even crappy ones, had crossflow heads. Why didn't Mercedes make the 61X engines crossflow?

With a diesel does non-crossflow have some advantage? The only reason I can come up with is it makes maintenance easier since they put the injectors and GP's on the opposite side to the manifolds. Maybe since they were targeting the taxi market ease of maintenance won out over performance.

What do you guys and girls think?

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  #2  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:47 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse-flow_cylinder_head


.
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2008, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
Very interesting. I love reading that stuff.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:34 PM
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The OM61x series was basically a modified version of the engines thay had been using for decades. It wasn't until the 1984 OM601 that MB made a complete redesign of the engine.
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Old 09-06-2008, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
...By the mid-60's almost all the cars I can remember, even crappy ones, had crossflow heads.
VW didn't put a crossflow head on their "normal" gas engine until 1993. The TDI wasn't crossflow until... now! The upcoming 2.0 common rail is crossflow... and looks like much more of a bear to work on.

-Jason
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2008, 12:45 AM
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The VW 2.0L PD engine was crossflow several years ago.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2008, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
The OM61x series was basically a modified version of the engines thay had been using for decades. It wasn't until the 1984 OM601 that MB made a complete redesign of the engine.

Yep, they're just the smaller slightly evolved offspring of the U-boat diesels....

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  #8  
Old 09-06-2008, 05:37 AM
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A non cross flow head was a big improvement over the side valve it replaced.

State of the art when it was designed. Truthfully in diesel It probably does not make much difference since the valves are straight up and down.

Tom W
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Old 09-06-2008, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
A non cross flow head was a big improvement over the side valve it replaced.

State of the art when it was designed. Truthfully in diesel It probably does not make much difference since the valves are straight up and down.

Tom W

especially on a FI engine
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:03 PM
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Probably because non-cross flow is so much easier to turbo so they didn't bother to change..
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
The OM61x series was basically a modified version of the engines thay had been using for decades. It wasn't until the 1984 OM601 that MB made a complete redesign of the engine.
Exactly correct.

The "roots" of the OM61X series of engines trace directly back to the OM621 that was first installed in the 1959 190D.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TimFreeh View Post
Exactly correct.

The "roots" of the OM61X series of engines trace directly back to the OM621 that was first installed in the 1959 190D.
And what did the OM621 descend from?
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2008, 03:00 PM
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A reverse flow head at the time gave better performance and fuel economy than a crossflow head because it was a diesel. A crossflow head developes it's advantages at a high RPM, 5500 RPM and above, something you don't do to a Diesel any way!

A reverse flow head also made it easier to Turbocharge and it was much better for fuel economy and emissions.
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
And what did the OM621 descend from?
The OM621 was a "clean sheet of paper" design - it was state of the art thinking... in 1957.

I'm not sure why you used the smiley icon? but the engine that preceeded the OM621 was the OM636, used in the 180D.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2008, 04:06 PM
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And what did the OM621 descend from?
Fred Flintstones feet.

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