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  #16  
Old 09-09-2008, 08:45 PM
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offroad abuse isn't my bag, but I'm sure that's a significant % of the market for stuff like this.

I just need a DD "mule" that I can beat on relentlessly, collect veggie oil with, pull up the docks at the cottage, and let my wife drive into things with.

Moving the rad in front of the cowl wouldn't bother me a bit. Some of the pics I was looking at are set up like that, seems OK to me... although they did mention having to hack up the hood latch.

Heck, I'd probably be just as happy with a 616 vs a VW 1.9aaz.

Mind you, I have a fresh AAZ on my engine stand, crying to me at night. Maybe that would be OK, but I have a feeling it would be pretty wheezy in a 4dr 4runner.

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1999 e300d PlantDrive WVO/SVO conversion
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2008, 10:39 PM
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That picture and your story makes me feel very fortunate.

One of the last times Grandma borrowed back the SL from me (many years ago), the starter stuck running in the exact same fashion as yours.

She just sat a watched and DIDN'T CALL ME. Fortunately a neighbor was outside and heard the starter grinding/saw the smoke, and disconnected the dying battery.

Thankfully, the flywheel was not damaged, the only victim of the whole ordeal was the starter. I guess it yet another testament to the durability of these old cars.
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:04 PM
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Why swap in a 617? Probably the same reason I did, because its reliable to the extreme and well, because its a Merc.

The platform you put it in should be worthy of the motor in my opinion. Put it in a gas G-Wagen (there's one here in Van on Craigslist with a shot motor for $7000) and you have a 4x4 with lockers all around that is about 1000 times more robust than a 4-Runner. I was looking at a Toyota before I bought my G; but a little investigating found out it had a horrible crash rating.

So if you can't find a G, maybe something like a LR or a Toyota Landcruiser would be worthy.

If you're dead set on putting a 617a into a 4-Runner, its not going to be that difficult. There's nothing electronic or tricky on the old Merc diesel. Keep the donor vehicle transmission and its basically a bolt in job with some minor fabrication. You'll need some sort of custom prop shaft or adapter to connect it to the Toy's transfer case. It took me about 80 hours to do the job on my G-Wagen.

Oh yeah, just don't sacrifice a servicable, and beautiful car to do the trick. I felt guilty about scrapping a 300SD that was abandoned on a field and hat cats living in it....

Cheers,

Michael
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:50 AM
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The 602a might be a better option. Same HP/TQ as a 617 but physically smaller and more efficient.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:11 AM
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I was thinking 602 also. Or for more power, the 603 or 606.

If you really like the nostalgic rattle of the 617 I'm happy for you, but I don't understand why you'd put one in a transplant instead of the lighter, more powerful, more efficient, cleaner, and easily upgraded 60x engine. They're all extremely reliable and good for hundreds of thousands of miles if properly maintained, and the 60x is easier to maintain.
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the advice guys. I would certainly consider a 602, although they're not as common as the 616/617s.

DO the 602's share the same mounting pattern as the 617? Reason I ask is because several people have managed to make 617-yota adapters. I wonder if they'd work for 602's.
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:07 AM
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No. The starter is on the other side and it has no removable adapter plate.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:40 AM
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While the 60x may be better in a lot of respects, I wouldn't say so from a cost/availability standpoint. Also the adapter plate makes the 617 much easier to... well adapt.
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:53 AM
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Although, at this point no-one has adapter plates to SELL, and no CAD files for them. I'm glad to fab up engine mounts, cooling systems, wiring, exhaust... but making an engine/tranny adapter is over my head... especially where I'm not really looking for a "build" project; I'm looking for a daily driver, and I'm in a bit of a rush

I've already got my sights on a couple 4Runners, and could have one as early as this weekend. Unless an om617 swap kit appears magically, I'll probably have to go with the VW 1.9aaz & ACME kit
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1999 e300d PlantDrive WVO/SVO conversion
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1990 Toyota 4Runner FrankenDiesel swap
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:41 PM
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I have a first generation 4runner, my 3rd, which i love off road! I have beat on it all over northern Baja and the Southern California desert, the tough little thing has never let me down.

Mine needed a new motor when I bought it, and i passed over numerous swaps for another 22re. I spend a lot of time in Baja and if you break down in poe dunk nowhere every Mexican mechanic has seen a 22re. Plus parts for the 22re is a lot more likely to be found than most other engines.

However from a power / MPG stand point the 22re leaves a lot to be desired. I get maybe 15 - 19 MPG off road, which means I often have to carry extra fuel. I am constantly using low range for better power.

So a 617 swap would be very cool for these rigs. Space might be tough, moving into the already small cab would be bad. moving more weight further out front would be bad as well. You could move the radiator to the roof, kind of unsightly. No matter what you do it will be expensive, which to me made the 22re seem not so bad.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billhard View Post
No matter what you do it will be expensive, which to me made the 22re seem not so bad.
Hard to say.

I think I can get a 4runner for ~1500. Sell the engine for $3-500

Option a) I can get my mitts on a good om617 for ~800. When 4x4labs starts selling adapters & flywheels, it'll be ~1k. Add engine mounts, cooling, wiring and ass't tomfoolery, about another $5-700. Problem is I've heard 4x4labs has had stuff "just about out the door" for ages. Their stuff looks great, but I don't want to wait.

Option b) I have a really fresh 1.9aaz w/k14 turbo ready and waiting on my engine stand. An ACME adapter & flywheel would be about $6-700. Another $5-700 for ass't bits & pieces. While not perfectly sized for a 4door 4runner, I already HAVE it and I'm very used to working on them.

Option c) Just today someone posted an '84 "2L" engine & transmission for sale locally for $750. Not sure how "bolt-in" that would be, and I think parts availability could be a nightmare.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:58 PM
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Well you won't get much more from the VW motor than you do from the 22re(112hp 142ftlb). Maybe better fuel consumption and lower torque. The best engine swap for the 4runner IMHO is to stick the toyota 3.4L V6 in a gen 1 truck. On the other hand a 1996 4runner are getting cheaper and you could have one from the factory. I also saw a guy on the net who transplants Toyota diesels from Japan into US spec 4runners very cool.
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  #28  
Old 09-11-2008, 03:40 AM
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notfarnow,

i am a co-owner and moderator of a toyota truck forum called "ultimateyota.com". i was also a long time moderator of yotatech.com (where you found that one thread) before the owner there got really stupid (still is stupid) and the entire staff abandoned him and we started ultimateyota. while you'll see more traffic at yotatech, the "knowledge base" came with us.

diesel swaps, even with kits, will require some creativity and some fab work.

if you are going to pick a 4runner, what are you going to use it for? and why a 4runner over, say, a toyota truck or a tacoma?

why dont you sign up and post your question at ultimateyota.com? there is a great group of MA guys. one of our most knowledgable guys lives in MA (Lee) and another co-owner named Cebby who is in the process of putting in a Lexus engine in his 2nd gen 4runner

bob
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_98sr5 View Post
diesel swaps, even with kits, will require some creativity and some fab work.
I agree. I'm comfortable with most of tge creative work needed, it's just the machining end that I can't do. I'll entrust that part to ACME.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_98sr5 View Post
if you are going to pick a 4runner, what are you going to use it for? and why a 4runner over, say, a toyota truck or a tacoma?
It's going to be a mule for cottage runs, going to the dump, towing a trailer, etc. I will beat on it mercilessly, but no real offroad duties. I do need to be able to use it for 4-600 mile roadtrips, and I want to be able to seat 4.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_98sr5 View Post
why dont you sign up and post your question at ultimateyota.com? there is a great group of MA guys. one of our most knowledgable guys lives in MA (Lee) and another co-owner named Cebby who is in the process of putting in a Lexus engine in his 2nd gen 4runner
[/quote]
Thanks Bob, I am going to do exactly that.

I picked up an $1100 1990 4runner on Saturday. Body solid, frame ugly but straight and solid. 345k kms. Just perfect for me.



On throttle, it pulls left, off throttle it pulls right. The brake pedal is really an armageddon peddle... you'd swear the world is collapsing around you. It desperately needs brakes, and suspension bushings.
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1990 Toyota 4Runner FrankenDiesel swap
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2008, 10:38 AM
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Jake,

Congrats on the purchase! Did you sign up on our forum? If so, under what screenname?

The two 2nd gen experts on Ultimateyota.com as I mentioned previously are Cebby and Robinhood4x4. Definitely key in on their time and PM/email them too. They are more than helpful and I know both will go out of their way to help you.

Bob

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