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  #16  
Old 09-14-2008, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
I've always wanted to gear two 617's together in a pickup and make an H-10.

seriously it sounds like a dodge viper.. its cool
there is a video of it running early in the build..
its here:
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/albums/scubaboo/stuff_014.avi
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2008, 09:19 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post
If you can do a boat project to that level of expertise I'd think you could handle the SL conversion with one hand tied behind your back!

Anyway good luck and keep the pictures coming.

thanks man.. the positive reinforcement helps a lot


Quote:
Originally Posted by Actros617 View Post
So what are you going to do with that V8, put it in the wagon???

heh

its in the back of my truck now, going to the junkyard along with the shell of the wagon tomorrow.. and not just any junkyard, a good german-only yard where both the gasser engine and trans as well as the 124 wagon body will live on.. somewhere in another car. Or at least go west peacefully with his MB, porsche, and BMW bretheren


Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
Why would you choose the most rare 603 powered car to pull an engine from? Was the wagon in running condition/good shape??? Those are very sought after and valuable cars!! You'd think you'd go for a rusted out or smashed SDL or something???
well, on some level I agree, the diesel wagon is iconic..
But I got it soo cheap as an engine source, and the car was not it that good of shape anyway. It needed lots and lots of work to get it "right" and if I had not just finished a complete restoration on my sedan 124 I might have been up for it.
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2008, 11:04 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,885
I think I would have kept it a V8.....you realize you just chopped like 20-30hp off the performance of that vehicle. Especially since the engine was still good. I'd have waited till the 380 died (if ever) and then did the swap...

I suppose its a good way to get an around town SL cruiser that will get better MPG's than a V8 and will be more reliable....but still....an SL is an SL.....its supposed to use a lot of fuel, and be quick and powerful....
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 69k - mine - (OC-75,000)
'89 420SEL 164k - mine (OC-167,000)
'93 190D 2.2 - 226k - mine (OC-228,700)
'01 E320 Wagon - 156k - mine (OC-160,000)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 3k - wifes (OC-13k)
'01 E320 - 165k - Dad's (OC-165,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 120k - dad's (OC-121,500)
'01 SL500 - 43k - dad's (OC-47,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 102k - Brothers (OC-104,500)
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:11 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawoSD View Post
I think I would have kept it a V8.....you realize you just chopped like 20-30hp off the performance of that vehicle. Especially since the engine was still good. I'd have waited till the 380 died (if ever) and then did the swap...

I suppose its a good way to get an around town SL cruiser that will get better MPG's than a V8 and will be more reliable....but still....an SL is an SL.....its supposed to use a lot of fuel, and be quick and powerful....

it basically was dead.. over 200K and needed valve job and was still running the single row timing chains, I will get the missing power back with an intercooler, bigger turbo, modded pump, exhaust etc..

plus the Biodiesel that I make only costs about .80 per gallon.
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2008, 12:31 AM
pawoSD's Avatar
Dieselsüchtiger
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 14,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by oel_brenner View Post
it basically was dead.. over 200K and needed valve job and was still running the single row timing chains, I will get the missing power back with an intercooler, bigger turbo, modded pump, exhaust etc..

plus the Biodiesel that I make only costs about .80 per gallon.
Ah I see, all makes sense then. Good luck with the conversion! I want to see it on the road!
__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 69k - mine - (OC-75,000)
'89 420SEL 164k - mine (OC-167,000)
'93 190D 2.2 - 226k - mine (OC-228,700)
'01 E320 Wagon - 156k - mine (OC-160,000)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 3k - wifes (OC-13k)
'01 E320 - 165k - Dad's (OC-165,500)
'07 E350 Wagon - 120k - dad's (OC-121,500)
'01 SL500 - 43k - dad's (OC-47,000)
'09 E350 4matic Sedan - 102k - Brothers (OC-104,500)
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  #21  
Old 09-26-2008, 02:00 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
update

update to research

must have electrical systems:

(minimum needed to run)

  • starter circuit
starter motor to bat + and solenoid connections to starter switch.. should be a no brainer here.


  • glow plug relay
connections from relay to glow plugs (six pole plug )
connection to battery and ground
signal wire to glow lamp indicator on dash
what else is involved with this circuit to enable its operation ?
temp control for glow length operation?
several other wires.. have not traced them


research this more with wiring diagram....

engine monitoring systems:

  • water temperature gauge connections
should be plug and play.. hopefully

  • oil pressure gauge connections
also plug and play.. hopefully



EDS


Electronic Diesel System

so it appears that this segment of the EDS system is basically all of the ways to turn the AC compressor
ON or OFF:

OFF or back ON via the kickdown switch (S30/1)
OFF or back ON via the automatic transmission switchover valve (Y3) triggering the kickdown switch (S30/1)
OFF via an overspeed condition of the AC compressor (L4) speed sensor
OFF via a low pressure condition on the AC pressure switch (S31)
OFF or ON via temperature condition by switch (S25/11)
OFF or ON via AC switch (S27/1)

http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D/W124_elec_EDS_ACsystem


The remainder is the fuel control portion of EDS (idle control)

http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D/W124elec1

inputs to this system are:

Voltage supply via OVP relay (K1)
engine speed via speed sensor (L3)
coolant temperature via sensor (B11/4)
IP control rod travel via sensor (L7)
air quantity via AFM (B2/1)
manifold (boost) pressure via OVP relay (K1) ?
barometric pressure via sensor (B18)
base circuit resistance via reference resistor (R18/2)
resistance trim via ELR knob (R18/1)

outputs are:
varying voltage to the ELR actuator (Y22)
voltage to vac transducer (Y31) and on to the ARF valve (Y31/1)
test connector diagnostic block


Based on what I see, its basically a big resistance loop with all of the input factors increasing
or decreasing the resistance ( plus the base resistance ) of voltage flow to the ELR actuator
which is on the backside of the injection pump. More voltage=more fuel, less voltage=less fuel.
Pretty simple... Base idle is set with ELR in central position (4) with mechanical stop. Base resistance
can be fine tuned with ELR knob.

  • EGR (exhaust gas recirc)
I plan to disable this completely

  • PCV ( crankcase vent)
I plan to disable this completely by dumping the vent into a air/oil separator
and vent the oil-free air out of the engine compartment via hose

  • Air Flow Meter
I plan to remove/disable this completely

  • ARV (air recirculation valve)
disable/remove this
  • cruise control
related to EDS as far as sensors ? ( dont think so ) what other inputs are there ? tach ? transmission?

  • OVP
appears to be just a feed relay to the EDS control unit, but it is connected to the vac switchover valve
that feeds boost signal to the ALDA, not sure what else is incorporated in this yet.. need more research


At this point I feel pretty comfortable with the EDS system, and I am tyring to decide if I want to keep it..
after removing all the emmisions and other non-essiential crap I am left with this :

http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D/W124elec1_modified


do I bother keeping the entire system with a good portion of it removed ?
It will probably still function if I terminite the not-used wires with either reisistors
or maybe simply leave them unconnected.. a study of the control unit schematic may help
(if its even available )

so what do I really need ? can I just connect power thru the OVP to the ELR actuator
trimmed by the ELR knob and just call it a day without all the feedback loops ?
Or maybe just set the base idle up a bit mechanically so when the A/C is on its not too low ?


vacuum systems:

  • wastgate/boost fuel control

from sixto:

The ALDA gets a boost signal from the manifold. A line goes to a VSV which is hooked up to a pressure sensor on the manifold beside the ALDA signal nipple. Pretty simple set-up - +12V to the VSV when the engine is running and a ground signal from the pressure sensor above 1.1 bar. No electrical connection to EDS or anything else. And of course a signal line from the VSV to the ALDA. There's a splitter at the ALDA for a boost signal to the transmission vacuum amplifier. Again, 617s and 603.971s manage without this boost signal to the transmission modulator.


  • other vac connections on IP
fuel cut-off connected to ignition switch
I will have to install an electro-vac solenoid possibly tapping off the
ignition coil power wire to control IP fuel-cutoff
study of vac diagrams may help


possible solution for fuel-cutoff: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1TMT1


  • vac reservoir tank behind fender

the vac diagram for the 87W124 shows no vac reservoir do the later cars have them ?



stock vac diagram:
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D/W124vac1

possible modified vac diagram:
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D/W124vac1_modified

the vac system could maybe be simpler.. have to work on this further....



Transmission:

has electrical connection (four pole plug i think )
what does this do ? just the reverse light and possibly neutral safety switch
FYI I am using the 124 transmission ( not sure of the model )
update: this connector from the W107 car plugs right into the W124 trans..
probably just light and NSS, have to verify with wiring diagram.


control boxes / relays behind battery:
several units .. the EDS in one of them (detailed above)
I think the other one is related to the climate control..
OVP and the A/C relay


other items to boost performance once I get it running reliably

Send out injection pump to myna diesel in finland to be upgraded
or figure out what they do to get more fuel ( bigger injectors etc )

Upgrade turbo+up the boost, holset hx35 is supposed to plug and play with
stock exhaust manifold on the 603.
update: not planning to use the stock manifold, I think I will build a tubular header and use a Holset HX-35


Add an intercooler, I will have to do this, as the the turbo interconnect pipe will not fit with this arrangement
in the W107 car. Plan to locate right behind grille in front of AC condenser and radatior, which will involve replacing
electric fans to behind the cooling stack, with puller units ( instead of pushers ).
This will also involve the removal of the mechanical fan and clutch assy.



Climate control:

The plan is to use the compressor from the W124 and attach it to the W107 climate system. I think the electrical triggering
of the compressor will be all that I have to do.. with the exception of idle control via EDS and the whole compressor
relay mess.. I may come up with some hybrid of W107 and W124 parts.. more work on this needs to be done.
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2008, 12:12 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
CIS fuel pump

so the W107 used a high pressure pump to run the CIS..
IIRC from my volkswagen days this pump kept constant pressure to the CIS system at 60 to 90 PSI or so.. I imagine this pump is the same

I was about to remove the pump and filter and related stuff, I before I did I though maybe I would keep it and pump diesel/biodiesel up to the front of the car, step the pressure way down and feed the big fleet type primary filter I plan to run.

Also there is an additional (third) large fuel sized hardline that runs to the back of the car, it was the fuel vent box to the charcoal so I could dump and extra fuel back to the tank via this line and "polish" the fuel as I drive.

the the main line from the tank would go thru the stock fuel pump and thru the pressure regulator thru the big primary fuel filter and to the lift pump.

the engine fuel return would use the stock fuel return line

and this third hard line could be used as described above.

issues:
will the pump hold up to diesel/biodiesel (rubber parts/seals inside )
will it even pump diesel ? ( I would think so..it would not be working that hard as the pressure would not be allowed to build up.)

what do you guys think ? I wanted to ask the collective genius before I remove the stuff


-J
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2008, 12:47 AM
ForcedInduction
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by oel_brenner View Post
will the pump hold up to diesel/biodiesel (rubber parts/seals inside )
No.

Quote:
will it even pump diesel ? ( I would think so..it would not be working that hard as the pressure would not be allowed to build up.)
Yes, but not for long. The injection pump only needs 14psi.
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2008, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 23
just an update to the forum.. (some people have been asking)

cooling system / heater circuit complete
oil cooler bracketry fabricated
power steering system complete
glow plug system complete ( save the dash glow light indicator )
alternator / charging system complete
coolant temp gauge complete ( needs calibration checked.. W124 sensor W107 gauge )
vac system complete ( save IP shut-off solenoid )
neutral safety switch works..
transmission cooler complete

items remaing:
vac IP shut-off solenoid.. ( need to get to the junkyard and find something suitable)
remaining engine sensors.. oil pressure etc..
A/C pressure hoses and electrical connections
exhaust system
shocks, springs


and lots of other stuff

I am trying to get the car operational so I can drive it around for a week or so
and work out any kinks and issues before I start on the cosmetic stuff

fresh pics on the project page..

http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D
videos on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/whiskeytangoyt

cheers...

-Jason
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2008, 11:43 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 20,229
Might be easier to use a VSV to have electric shutoff -

Hot wire.

Sixto
87 300D
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