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  #1  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:50 PM
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SL300D ? yes..

So my latest project is to transplant the OM603 from a 1987 W124 300DT wagon into a 1984 W107/R107 380SL body
and creating a SL300D turbodiesel or a 300SLD..

so I have a myriad of questions, and I am fishing for some answers.. I have just begun this phase of the project
so while some research has been done, by no means is that complete. I thought I would boost my research
with posts to this and other forums and tap into the vast knowledge base that is out there..

anyway the project photo gallery/journal is located here for those interested :
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D


so below is what I am facing so far..
what am I missing ?
what else have I not thought of ?
thoughts ?
suggestions ?


must have electrical systems:
(minimum needed to run)

starter circuit
starter motor to bat + and solenoid connections to starter switch

glow plug relay
connections from relay to glow plugs (six pole plug )
connection to battery and ground
signal wire to glow lamp indicator on dash
what else is involved with this circuit to enable its operation ?
temp control for glow length operation?
several other wires.. have not traced them


engine monitoring systems:

water temperature gauge connections
should be plug and play.. hopefully
oil pressure gauge connections
also plug and play.. hopefully

engine driveability/emmisions/feedback loops etc.:

EGR (exhaust gas recirc)
I plan to disable this completely
PCV ( crankcase vent)
I plan to disable this completely by dumping the vent into a air/oil separator
and vent the oil-free air out of the engine compartment via hose
Air Flow Meter
from what I understand this just is simply the input side of the EGR feedback loop
I plan to not use this at all
electrical connections on back of IP
two wires.. what do they control ?


vacuum systems:

wastgate/boost fuel control
operated by vacuum circuit, manifold pressure port on intake
how does this loop work, what are other inputs ?
electrical pressure port on manifold going thru a series of electro-vac solenoids and the
"big-blue" vacuum regulator.. again not sure how all this works, but I have not yet studied the vac
diagrams yet..

can I just use a wastegate control with a variable boost setting ( like a delta )? but how do I control the added fuel needed
for the added air (from boost )
I also plan to add an EGT gauge to monitor this

vac connections to ALDA on IP
one connection splits into two and feeds into fuel control system ?
study of vac diagrams may help

other vac connections on IP
I imagine on is the fuel cut-off connected to ignition switch
I will have to install an electro-vac solenoid possibly tapping off the
ignition coil power wire to control IP fuel-cutoff
study of vac diagrams may help

vac solenoids next to air filter box / AFM
not sure what they do
study of vac diagrams may help

Transmission:
has electrical connection (four pole plug i think )
what does this do ? just the reverse light and possibly neutral safety switch
FYI I am using the 124 transmission ( not sure of the model )


control boxes behind battery
several units .. I seem to remember one controlling idle on my other W124
are they even related to engine operation ?
I think one is related to the climate control..


other items to boost performance once I get it running reliably

Send out injection pump to myna diesel in finland to be upgraded
or figure out what they do to get more fuel ( bigger injectors etc )

Upgrade turbo+up the boost, holset hx35 is supposed to plug and play with
stock exhaust manifold on the 603.

Add an intercooler

__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels

Last edited by oel_brenner; 09-13-2008 at 12:17 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-13-2008, 12:35 AM
sixto's Avatar
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That engine has electronically controlled idle (EDS). The MAF behind the right headlight is only needed for EGR and ARV (vacuum amps behind the right headlights). You can get away with turning up base idle and leaving it at that.

The key switch isn't as simple as you make it sound I would look into fitting the Diesel key switch with vacuum section into the 107 or look into a key switch and VSV from a 140 Diesel.

There is a vacuum reservoir tucked in one of the front fenders. Also a coolant overflow collection bottle in the right front fender.

The wagon power steering pump has an integral SLS pump. You might try the pump off a US 300D (sedan) of the same year for a bolt-on solution. Or maybe the 107 pump will work with the 603 brackets.

IMO the messiest wiring is going to be the OVP relay and how it ties into the flywheel rpm sensor needed for EDS, tach and cruise control.

If you have the resources to get a Myna IP, forget the 603 and go with a 606!

Sixto
87 300D
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  #3  
Old 09-13-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
The key switch isn't as simple as you make it sound I would look into fitting the Diesel key switch with vacuum section into the 107 or look into a key switch and VSV from a 140 Diesel.
I may try to transplant the keyswitch, but failing that
something like this might work:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1TMT1
I have a similar setup controlling the fuel shut-off in my boat which is powered by 2x OM 617's
that project here:
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/scubaboo


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post

There is a vacuum reservoir tucked in one of the front fenders. Also a coolant overflow collection bottle in the right front fender.

The wagon power steering pump has an integral SLS pump. You might try the pump off a US 300D (sedan) of the same year for a bolt-on solution. Or maybe the 107 pump will work with the 603 brackets.
I was planning to move the vac reservoir and coolant collection bottle,
good catch.. need to add that to my list of stuff to remove from the 124 donor car before I junk it.

I plan to swap the pump for a sedan pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post

IMO the messiest wiring is going to be the OVP relay and how it ties into the flywheel rpm sensor needed for EDS, tach and cruise control.
OVP ? whats that ?
as for EDS, not sure how complex that system is if I can move it
or just turn up the base idle and be done with it..
what are the components involved with the EDS ?

not sure how to tackle the tach yet..
and I probably wont run cruise control for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
If you have the resources to get a Myna IP, forget the 603 and go with a 606!

87 300D

that 606 wiring would be WAYYYYYY worse
but it would be nice..

I think the next project will be W129 fitted with the V8 out of a E400 CDI now THAT would be a car...
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1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #4  
Old 09-13-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixto View Post
That engine has electronically controlled idle (EDS). The MAF behind the right headlight is only needed for EGR and ARV (vacuum amps behind the right headlights). You can get away with turning up base idle and leaving it at that.
in my quest to understand all of the acronyms what is ARV ?
and you are thinking I can remove /disable all that crap ?
crap=the vac amps behind the RH headlight and associated systems
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #5  
Old 09-13-2008, 01:27 PM
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I would take everything needed to make it work. So whatever the wagon has I would try to transplant it in the sl.

I would of tried to gotten a 606 since they are quicker off the line.
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1991 190E 2.6(120k)
1983 300D(300k)
1977 300D(211k)

Last edited by Oracle12345; 09-13-2008 at 01:34 PM.
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  #6  
Old 09-13-2008, 02:39 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 20,793
EDS is electronic Diesel system

ARV is air recirculation valve

OVP is overvoltage protection

EDS controls idle and emission devices. Emission devices are EGR and ARV, not counting the passive trap oxidizer or replacement oxidation catalyst (since from the pictures your 603 doesn't have a trap). Atop the engine vacuum pump is a 5-way splitter. The two lines that go towards the right headlight can be capped if you disable EGR and ARV. Then the vacuum devices and all the hoses on the passenger side can be removed. The EGR valve can be removed (you can get an EGR cap kit or make your own caps) or simply disabled. I strongly recommend covering the EGR port at the mixing pipe even if you keep the EGR valve in place for looks. The ARV is attached to the turbo compressor housing. Detaching the vacuum line detaches it but make sure the valve is seated squarely over the supply port and the spring keeps firm pressure on the valve. I ended all doubt by pressing a 12mm (or was it a 1/2") freeze plug into the supply port. You can't easily remove the ARV because of the odd shaped output port into the compressor inlet pipe. You'll know what I mean when you open the ARV. No gaskets to worry about.

The bigger black line that crosses the engine bay is a vent line for the vacuum amplifiers. It goes into the cabin a few inches and just hangs there. I don't remember if the vent line from the left side of the engine taps into the same vent or if there's a separate vent for the left side devices. In any case, it's just a vent.

With EGR and ARV out of the way, EDS only controls idle, and doesn't need the MAF to do so. You'll need a wiring diagram for all the connections to and from the EDS module.

If this were my project, I'd locate a Euro exhaust manifold or one from a 92-95 140 Diesel. The simpler exhaust manifold gets hot exhaust to the turbo sooner. You'll need the turbo oil supply line that goes with the manifold.

There are two more branches off the engine vacuum pump. One goes to the cabin for ACC register selection, the other goes to the transmission modulator. I don't know why this vintage 603 has such a complicated transmission modulator. Earlier and later versions have a vacuum line to the IP. That's it. This middle year set-up has a vacuum amplifier and temperature control switch. If you can live with it disconnected, by all means do so. Otherwise move the whole kit and kaboodle over to the SL. There might be a vacuum diagram decal in the wagon engine bay.

The ALDA gets a boost signal from the manifold. A line goes to a VSV which is hooked up to a pressure sensor on the manifold beside the ALDA signal nipple. Pretty simple set-up - +12V to the VSV when the engine is running and a ground signal from the pressure sensor above 1.1 bar. No electrical connection to EDS or anything else. And of course a signal line from the VSV to the ALDA. There's a splitter at the ALDA for a boost signal to the transmission vacuum amplifier. Again, 617s and 603.971s manage without this boost signal to the transmission modulator.

Sixto
87 300D
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  #7  
Old 09-13-2008, 02:57 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
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I forgot to mention - vacuum for engine shut-off is sourced at a check valve along the vacuum line to the brake booster. Shut-off works just as well sourced from the 5-way splitter. Maybe MB thinks you're more likely to have a vacuum leak among those devices than at the brake booster. Imagine having no brake assist and not being able to shut off the engine

Look into how remote start kits compatible with Diesels effect engine shut-off.

I don't know anything about that Grainger valve but what you need is something that will switch the engine shut-off actuator between a vacuum supply when the key is off and a vent when the key is on AND cap the vacuum supply when the key is on.

If the side extension of the wagon engine sump is a fitment problem, you have the option of using any M103, M104 or OM603 sump with the caveat that you might have to find or fabricate an appropriate oil pick-up tube. Drop in solutions are the pump and sump off a 90-91 350SD/L or both from a 92-95 140 Diesel. Note that the 92-95 140 Diesel sump has a baffle plate between the rod caps the oil pump attaches to and the oil pump itself so there is some positiong to consider if you don't keep the baffle. Some folks are averse to the baffle because thats another dozen nuts that can come loose and get ingested by the oil pump. I've never heard of that actually happening. It's more likely the vacuum pump will explode and send debris into the sump.

On that note, I hope you're aware of problems with the old style engine vacuum pump. It's much safer to go with a newer style pump with sealed bearings. Safer is not absolute. Resident 603 guru gsxr/DaveM just had a new style vacuum pump failure. Looks like no additional engine damage beyond the local carnage. Interesting reading. There's also some discussion as to the quality of ~$100 replacements vs $300 Pierburg pumps.

Sixto
87 300D
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  #8  
Old 09-13-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oel_brenner View Post
...........................................................

anyway the project photo gallery/journal is located here for those interested :
http://www.coastalboatsales.com/jfraley/gallery/SL300D

........................................................................................
Your boat job...quite the project and very impressive. How do the twin diesels go? Any mod's to them ?

Got any GPH consumption figures yet ?

I was going to drop a OM617A in a 107 but on my post everyone said 'can't be done'...now I'm thinking 'maybe it would work'.

I have done many things over the years only to be told later 'you can't do that !'

I have found the 617 cylinder head to be the biggest obstacle to putting out power...I'm talking about 200 hp.

The intake and exhaust port runners are very narrow and the casting is such that there is a lot of room for opening up the runners.

Any way...hope your 107 works out...I'll be watching.


.
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  #9  
Old 09-13-2008, 08:33 PM
ForcedInduction
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Nobody said it couldn't be done, we said it would require some significant modifications.
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  #10  
Old 09-14-2008, 12:01 PM
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sixto..
thanks for the wealth of information..
that will help a bunch..

I plan to post a diagram of my "planned" configuration
both vac and electrical for peer review.
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1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels
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  #11  
Old 09-14-2008, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
Your boat job...quite the project and very impressive. How do the twin diesels go? Any mod's to them ?

Got any GPH consumption figures yet ?

they run famously..
no mods yet.. other the removal of all emissions related stuff
future mods include a air to water intercooler and some fuel/boost mods

other then the water injection exhaust, its basically two straight pipes out the back of the boat.. and with two 617's and all 10 cylinders going
the sound is pretty awesome..

as far as GPH.. I dont have any real data but at hull speed
( maximum speed before transom water separation )
the 617's are at about 1500RPM and I am going about 9-11 kts
maybe 1PSI of boost and using almost no fuel..

I ran around all day at that speed and used like 5 gallons of fuel
__________________
1976 Mercedes Benz 300D
1987 Mercedes Benz 300TD sedan
1984 Mercedes Benz SL300D turbodiesel
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Dually Cummins Diesel
1974 30\' Uniflite \"Salty Dog\" sportfisherman powered by (2) 617 951 MB turbodiesels

Last edited by oel_brenner; 09-14-2008 at 09:55 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2008, 12:32 PM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oel_brenner View Post
with 617's and all 10 cylinders going
the sound is pretty awesome..
I've always wanted to gear two 617's together in a pickup and make an H-10.
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2008, 01:07 PM
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Boat conversion is super impressive!

If you can do a boat project to that level of expertise I'd think you could handle the SL conversion with one hand tied behind your back!

Anyway good luck and keep the pictures coming.
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:48 PM
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So what are you going to do with that V8, put it in the wagon???
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2008, 08:25 PM
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Why would you choose the most rare 603 powered car to pull an engine from? Was the wagon in running condition/good shape??? Those are very sought after and valuable cars!! You'd think you'd go for a rusted out or smashed SDL or something???

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