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  #16  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The easiest/best way to test at home is to put it on vehicle. Also if an IP is full of fuel and you turn it by hand they will squirt out some fuel for you.

Suppose you made your own test stand and it had all of the things you need on it. Where would you get the specifications to check the IP?
The IP is supposed to put out certain amounts of fuel at certain rpms.
Without the specs for the pump you could only say that it puts out fuel.
You could create your own specs by running a good pump or better a rebuilt pump and recording what it puts out but that still dose not tell you all of what is going on in the IP.
An IP test stand like the one I used back in the 70s sold in North Carolina last year for $750 but it was pick-up only. The Ebay seller had bought it from a State School Surplus sale. So it is possible not to pay $100,000 for one.
Also I have seen them selling in the $15,000-$20,000 range used by used equipment sellers.
Another note: If your IP is not properly aligned on your test stand you can ruin bearings really fast.
Thanks, good info. Stands to reason that the amount of fuel from each delivery valve needs to be monitored and the specs known, to do a proper test. I went through the PI swap (and swap back) a few years ago, of course the problem was something else it was a real PIA even on my 616, epically that rear bracket.
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
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2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdoc View Post
I have thought about this in the past. The only way I can think of to truly test an IP is to connect hard lines and an injector to each DV, but don't install the injectors in the head and crank the engine. If the injectors pop and fuel mist sprays out of each one then the IP is probably fine. Testing any other way doesn't insure that the IP is putting out enough pressure to pop open the injector (2000 PSI). You'll need to be super careful that you don't touch the injectors while they are spraying or you might just land up with a diesel injection right through your skin though.
You would need to clamp the IP, maybe in a carpenters vice (wooden jaws) then find a way to turn the IP, maybe a spare "splined collier" welded to something that would fit in the drill motor??....hummm Someone must have tried this. Could be used as a pop tester too
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
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1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

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  #18  
Old 09-15-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
Thanks, good info. Stands to reason that the amount of fuel from each delivery valve needs to be monitored and the specs known, to do a proper test. I went through the PI swap (and swap back) a few years ago, of course the problem was something else it was a real PIA even on my 616, epically that rear bracket.
I have a IP I bought on Ebay before I bought the CD Factory Manual and found out that they say to remove the Oil filter Housing to remove the pump.
I thought I would be able to install the Ebay pump; drive it around for a while and then I could say it was tested if I wanted to resell it.
Due to the trouble to do the above the IP sits on the floor in my Garage.
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2008, 06:34 PM
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Did you sell it as a used, known-good pump, or as an as-is item? What kind of proof did you provide to the buyer of that? Were you totally clear that the item was being sold as-is? Did you offer to refund his money if it didn't work? Did you put a time limit on the refund?

Somebody here is going to be learning a lesson, the question is only who.

If you sold it as-is, and didn't offer to refund their money if it didn't work, or did and its well past the time you said you'd do it in, then they are stuck with it. In the spirit of being a good person, you should try to work with them on striking an agreement, however the agreement will be a compromise -- neither party will come out of it loosing nothing. If they can't understand that concept, then I'd suggest you walk away from it and them them take their lump as they will never be happy until you take all the losses for their mistake.

As for taking it back, you can really only honorably ask for the same kind of proof of its condition as you gave to them. If that was only your word, well...

Don't forget in the compromise, someobody ends up owning the part. If it later tests to be in good working order, they get to use or resell it as a working pump.

Good luck.
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
You would need to clamp the IP, maybe in a carpenters vice (wooden jaws) then find a way to turn the IP, maybe a spare "splined collier" welded to something that would fit in the drill motor??....hummm Someone must have tried this. Could be used as a pop tester too
My thought would be of testing it in-situ, mounted on the engine and using the starter to crank the pump around. It would not test the quantity of fuel through each injector but simply check basic functionality. I suppose you could do some measuring of fuel too by catching the fuel from each injector and comparing it but this way you would at least know if the IP was popping open the injectors. If it does that the IP should allow the engine to run.
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  #21  
Old 09-15-2008, 09:43 PM
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Thanks for all the excellent thoughts and comments. I sold the pump back in June and have since purged all the pms. I cannot remember what I told him. The comment about the pump never being the problem is exactly what I always say.

I guess I will tell him if he wishes to return the pump I will test it and if its bad I will return his money. If not he will owe me $25 for my trouble.

The thing that kindof says it all is that he has abandoned the 240 motor and is installing a 617.

Tom W
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2008, 09:54 PM
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yeah he just wants his money back cause he bought something he doesn't need.
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1976 240D 190,000 miles
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I have a IP I bought on Ebay before I bought the CD Factory Manual and found out that they say to remove the Oil filter Housing to remove the pump.
I thought I would be able to install the Ebay pump; drive it around for a while and then I could say it was tested if I wanted to resell it.
Due to the trouble to do the above the IP sits on the floor in my Garage.
"remove the Oil filter Housing" Yah, theres another sweet job on top of the IP job
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdoc View Post
My thought would be of testing it in-situ, mounted on the engine and using the starter to crank the pump around. It would not test the quantity of fuel through each injector but simply check basic functionality. I suppose you could do some measuring of fuel too by catching the fuel from each injector and comparing it but this way you would at least know if the IP was popping open the injectors. If it does that the IP should allow the engine to run.
Sure, maybe that would make a good winter experiment when the shop stove is stoked up
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2008, 08:27 PM
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How to tell if an injection pumpis broken

I bought an old wagon with a poor veggie conversion in it on ebay. Engine not running. The pump did squirt when the car was cranked over out of the injection lines with no injectors connected. The old injectors were coked up and plugged, The plungers in some of the injectors even scored. With proven good injectors this pump did not create enough pressure to crack them.

The next step would be to figure out what part in the IP is actually damaged.
Could you hook up a injector crack tester to each IP output and see if you have leakage / pressure drop?
Anybody tried that?
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  #26  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack View Post
I bought an old wagon with a poor veggie conversion in it on ebay. Engine not running. The pump did squirt when the car was cranked over out of the injection lines with no injectors connected. The old injectors were coked up and plugged, The plungers in some of the injectors even scored. With proven good injectors this pump did not create enough pressure to crack them.

The next step would be to figure out what part in the IP is actually damaged.
Could you hook up a injector crack tester to each IP output and see if you have leakage / pressure drop?
Anybody tried that?
Some suggestions.
The problem could be as simple as holes plugged or restricted in the Plunger and Barrels/Elements inside of the IP (Do Not Remove them it will change the fuel settings).
There is a feed hole in each Element where the fuel pressure from the Fuel Supply pump goes into. If these are blocked no fuel gets inside of the elements and no fuel gets injected out.
Perhaps filling the IP up with a solovent,B100,Marvel Mystery oil what ever is your favorite pumped through by way of the hand primer and let it soak for a week or so.
Another problem could be the IP Fuel Supply pump which I believe is supposed to put out 18psi. The 18psi is controlled by the Overflow valve on the side of the IP. This could also be clogged up.
You could also pull off some of the delivery valves and take a peek inside.
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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Simple pump-test...

Easiest way, is to place pump in a vice, taking care not to use too much pressure and soft-wood blocks to protect case....

Plumb up the system with the lift-pump, a small fuel-filter, to the IP inlet, the return to a Clean supply of fuel..

Attach a H.P. line and a spare injector to the first outlet. Prime up the system by using the primer, until bubble-free return flow is observed.

Using a spanner on the pump drive, rotate the shaft. A good pump will deliver fuel, even at hand speed--(It doesnt go much faster when engine is cranking on the starter...).--and a really good pump will deliver at very slow hand speed....

Take care with the spray from the injector, the vapour is dangerous if inhaled and could penetrate skin if directed near it....--

Best direct it into a jar, with a rag around the injector to act as a catcher for the spray/vapour

Try each outlet in turn.

This test will not tell you that the volume of fuel delivered is right, but at least it will tell you that the pump is capable of supplying fuel at the pressures needed, so at least will run an engine if fitted....
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2008, 11:50 AM
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Thats more or less the procedure I was wondering about using the wooden jaws of a carpenter's vice. Perhaps a "handle" welded to a spare splined coller to turn it by. Maybe this winter I'll do some experimenting just for fun, Thanks.
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1985 Euro 300TD 5 spd 220K
1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 130K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2008, 04:53 PM
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Yesterday my friend the buyer pm me and said the pump pumps.

So you guys are all in agreement that if I sold him a good pump and he has decided for his own reasons not to use it three months later I would be within my rights to refuse to take the pump back?

I plan to offer a partial refund just to be more than fair.

Tom W
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:11 PM
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I think that is more then fair

Stick with your thinking and go on to better things. Obviously he doesn't need it now. He should have thought of that before he bought it.
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