Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 117
Prospective 300D Non-Turbo Purchase >> No Start

I checked out a 300D for sale today that was not starting. According to the owners, it had developed some kind of power drain and would randomly not start up again after running and being parked. The did not seem very savy at all with mechanics and were just done with the hassle. They had parked it for the whole summer and cobwebs had developed all over under the hood. The seemed to think that it was the starter that had gone out. I probbed for any hints that it may have overheated and seized, but they seemed honest and not trying to cover anything up.

I brought an extra battery and we hooked that in. I found that the grounding cable/wire was very loose on it's bolt on the sidewall while doing this. The guy had to actually push on the wire in a certain way to keep it connected while I turned the key. When he did this I was seeing good headlights and everything seemed to work. It would glow and everything on the dash. When I would try to turn it over however, it would just "click".... nothing else.

I wanted to try turning the engine by hand, but didn't know I wasn't going to be able to slip a 27mm ratchet socket onto the crankshaft end with any ease. I was told by someone along the way that this was the size of this bolt-head so that one could try turning the engine by . It was too tight between the fan and radiator to get in there though.

So... I'm paranoid about the engine being seized rather than an electrical problem like insufficient grounding. Could these symptoms be related to insufficient grounding do you think? Any help brainstorming this problem and what I could try next would be great. I have a feeling I could chip the deal down to about five-hundred for the whole rig. I'm mainly interested in just the engine as a donor for my downed coupe....

Thanks all.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:29 PM
BoomInTheTrunk's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rancho Cucamunga, California
Posts: 713
It might be the neutral safety switch, try jumping the terminals to see if it will start.
__________________

1981 300d
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:33 PM
slarson80's Avatar
infotainment user
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oakland,CA
Posts: 283
Search "Solenoid"
__________________
Sonny


86 190D N/A 2.5L Auto 265k "Ruby" -Sold-
79 300D 242k "Condi" my first -sold- RIP
2013 chevy sonic hatchback - had to for work
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:02 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 30,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomInTheTrunk View Post
It might be the neutral safety switch, try jumping the terminals to see if it will start.
If its neutral safety there would not be a click.

If the ground is loose I would fix that before doing anything else. Him holding it will not do the trick for running the starter, that takes a lot of juice and good connections.

Siezing is rare in a benz.

If its a bad starter you may be able to pull it and get it started that way.

Tom W
__________________
Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eastern Mass
Posts: 231
Could be a poor ground connection. This can happen from the negative cable to the frame as you mention. Also can occur from the frame to engine block( not enough juice to starter). There is a strap from the bellhousing to the frame that some times gets loose or broken. Try using a jumper cable from the battery negative post to somewhere convient on the block. That might help.
__________________
81 300D Turbo 190K sold
83 300sd 319K best $500 I ever spent-daily driverw/ 2 tank WVO set up
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-22-2008, 12:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 117
Need to try a hand-turning of engine

HeyAll,

Thanks for your input. I'm thinking I'm pretty close to just taking a chance on it, but I'd still like to try turning the engine by hand to do make sure it's not seized.

IS there a way to do this without taking out the radiator and fan-blade in order to get in there? Perhaps there's a way to fish in a proper socket onto th crank-end from underneath and give it a turn? Or could I try putting a socket on one of the pully driven items and turning via the belts?

Any help with this would be mucho appreciated!, thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:00 AM
chetwesley's Avatar
Incompetent Loser
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 745
If the owners are being at all honest, I doubt it is seized. For non techy people, they would have to know a lot to come up with that story. I don't blame you for wanting to check though.

Bring a hammer and tap the starter, it could be dead (I think it would still click). Usually an intermittently working starter still has a few starts left in it, but you need to give it a whack with a hammer to get the brushes to make contact inside.
__________________
1979 240D w/4 Speed Manual, Light Blue Estimated 225-275K Miles - "Lil' Chugs"
Sold but fondly remembered: 1981 300TD Turbo Tan 235K miles, 1983 300SD Astral Silver 224K miles


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 117
Thanks

OK. I guess I could try the hammer trick.

Is this best accessed from the top (under hood), or from underneath?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:34 AM
Cervan's Avatar
Crazy mechanic.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: olympia washington
Posts: 1,809
offer him less for the car and have it towed to your house, if you get it started in his driveway it may piss him off.
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:48 AM
chetwesley's Avatar
Incompetent Loser
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPop View Post
OK. I guess I could try the hammer trick.

Is this best accessed from the top (under hood), or from underneath?
From underneath. The starter is sort of a torpedo shaped metal thing, about 12"-14" long (?) that is stuck into the back of the engine. I can't remember off hand which side of the car it is on (it has been a while since I had a w123), but I think it is the driver's side. If you look under the car from behind the front driver's side wheel and look forward towards the engine, you should see it.

Edit: You know, now that I think of it, it might be under the passenger side, because I remember someone saying that you can get it out from above by taking off the air cleaner. I am sure someone knows and can chime in.
__________________
1979 240D w/4 Speed Manual, Light Blue Estimated 225-275K Miles - "Lil' Chugs"
Sold but fondly remembered: 1981 300TD Turbo Tan 235K miles, 1983 300SD Astral Silver 224K miles



Last edited by chetwesley; 09-22-2008 at 02:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 117
Exactly!

Ha.... exactly! My being able to chip down the price quite a bit is due to it not running. I have a feeling I could probably get it running again in quick order, but I'll bet that would tick them off to see me ride off in it...! I know I would be peeved on the other end...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-22-2008, 03:01 AM
Cervan's Avatar
Crazy mechanic.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: olympia washington
Posts: 1,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPop View Post
Ha.... exactly! My being able to chip down the price quite a bit is due to it not running. I have a feeling I could probably get it running again in quick order, but I'll bet that would tick them off to see me ride off in it...! I know I would be peeved on the other end...
if you can rotate the engine by hand (like by the powersteering pulley, or the crankshaft bolt) buy it because its not seized, but talk him down as much as possible.
__________________
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

As long as they would add one additional commandment for you to keep thy religion to thyself.
George Carlin (Wonder where he is now..)

1981 240d (engine donor 1983 240d) recently rebuilt engine hurray! - No more.. fought a tree and the tree won.

pearl black 1983 240d 4speed (Converted!@$$%) atleast the tranny was rebuilt.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 18,352
Large adjustable wrench on the power steering pulley will work. You'll probably have to push on the belt at the same time to get it to turn. Some people don't like using the power steering nut to do this because it might excessively tighten the nut. It doesn't bother me.
You could also jump terminals one and three on the plastic junction box on top of the right fender in front of the battery (if it has one). This sometimes causes the starter to function if the ignition switch connections are bad.
If it starts however, your negotiating position will be compromised.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 311
I use the power steering pump pulley to turn the engine. I use a 12 inch crescent wrench. I don't think it is tightening the nut. I did this just the other day to examine the ring gear while the starter was out. Turn clockwise only; some say it's bad to turn the engine backwards. Observe which way the fan turns to blow air toward the engine. The starter is on the passenger side.
__________________
1980 300 TD

1997 Dodge Pickup/Cummins 5.9 12-valve
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:20 PM
moon161's Avatar
Formerly of Car Hell
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbean View Post
Turn clockwise only; some say it's bad to turn the engine backwards. Observe which way the fan turns to blow air toward the engine. The starter is on the passenger side.
I'm told the timing chain will bunch & bind or jump if turned backwards.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page