Not another winter car thread!

[MonsieurBon]

Hi team,

I'm debating purchasing a winter-snow-happy-time-adventure car. I use my '84 300D for just about everything now. I live in the Pacific NW, and I don't have to deal with snow in my daily commute, but I go skiing up in the mountains at least twice a week during the winter.

For the past few years, I just used chains, which I have become super-snappy at installing and removing in poor conditions. But they limit my speed for what can sometimes be at least 30 miles. And frequently, there are bare patches after heavy snow and ice, so then I feel like an idiot and have to go even slower.

I'm planning on getting even further out into the wild places this winter. Here are my options, as I see them:

1) Get (studded?) snow tires on steel wheels for maybe $400 from Les Schwab, with free swapping and rotation. I would, of course, be then driving on regular roads with studded tires when I drive to work. Also, with chains, I noticed that I would have really good traction in even sloppy deep snow, while 4x4 trucks with huge clearance and snow tires would get stuck.

2) Get a snow car. I want either a Subaru Loyale AWD wagon ($1500-$2000) or a Mazda MPV 4x4 van ($2000-$4000), both with snow tires. This is the more expensive option, but I could sleep in the Mazda (and the Subie in a pinch) if I wanted to, so it would also make a good camping car.

They don't use salt up in the mountains here, but I don't know if that's true in Washington state, and my car is cream colored, so it gets VERY dirty up there. I supposed I could get a power washer for less than the cost of another car, though.

Another issue is glow plugs. I had one die on me in the mountains last year, and it took me a very scary 15 minutes to get the car started. I have a super-heavy duty block heater which I could connect to a $400 generator if necessary, though. Or I could carry an extra camping stove or propane torch.

So am I crazy thinking about getting another car? With snow tires I should be just fine up there, yes? Should I get a front skid plate made and attached? Or take off the front lower air dam thingy?

Also, will a full fuel tank, a full 12-gallon veggie oil tank in the trunk, and two full 6-gallon be enough to give the rear wheels enough traction if I get snow tires? I calculate that to be about 280 lbs above or behind the rear axle.

Thanks for your input.

[TylerH860]

Do they salt the roads? Not subjecting it to that will certainly extend the life of your car.

I would also suggest looking at All Trac Toyota Previas.

A friend of mine who collects Porsches has 3 of them... excellent mountain cars from my personal experiences.

[MonsieurBon]

Originally Posted by TylerH860

Do they salt the roads? Not subjecting it to that will certainly extend the life of your car.

I would also suggest looking at All Trac Toyota Previas.

A friend of mine who collects Porsches has 3 of them... excellent mountain cars from my personal experiences.

No salt in Oregon, but I did notice a very minute around of red tint in some of my rock chips, which could just be from individuals using salt or just minerals in the gravel they use.

I'll check out the Toyotas, thanks!

[rrgrassi]

I wouold look into a Nissan Hard Body or Toyota Tacoma 4x4. They are light enough to not sink like a full size P/U. My Nissan handles well in mud and on ice.

[MonsieurBon]

Just to clarify, I'm looking more for an opinion on whether snow tires and current car would work fine in snow if they worked fine with chains, or whether getting a mountain car makes more sense. I'd like to not start (continue) a car collection, if possible. I've already got the Subie Brat sitting in the driveway, not running.

Thanks for the input!

[Simpler=Better]

4 banger ford ranger, grab a cheap lift kit and some studded read tires, put 400lbs of sand in the back. Total cost would be around $1,200 if you don't care about looks.

[rrgrassi]

The Subie Brat would be best. I have not seen one of those in years!

[MonsieurBon]

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

The Subie Brat would be best. I have not seen one of those in years!

Hahahahah... Yeah... Once I finish rewiring the starter with a relay and a flip-cover-rocket-launching switch and get it unstuck from 4th gear, should be good as new! The PO thought the starter was bad and replaced it with no luck. I found the problem is the ignition switch, not the starter. I started that project 6 months ago. Doh! (Not a lack of skill, just a lack of motivation and a big dose of shame.)

The word "deathtrap" came to mind when I did drive it, though. The un-attached roll bar probably has something to do with that.

[bgkast]

My cars did fine on studs when I lived in Eastern WA. MonsieurBon- I sent you a PM.

[Hatterasguy]

I'm getting another throw away VW for this winter. But thats it, I'm buying a Silverado.


For the last few winters I have been driving throw away cars that I picked up cheap. Don't do anything to them, and junk them for $200 in April. Cheapest transport ever! Almost cheaper than walking!


I havn't driven a diesel in the winter since I sold my SD, and I don't miss it. Its not worth the hassle unless the car is in really good shape. My friends E300D does well, I wouldn't mind living with a 1998+ diesel. But a gas car will do something my SD didn't always do...start on the first try with no fuss when its below zero out, and the car is a block of ice. No messing with freaken heaters and plugs to.

[curtludwig]

My 240D is the best snow car I've ever known 4wd, 2wd, fwd it doesn't matter, a 240D with snowtires will pass all of them.
The trick is weight vs power, the 240D has weight and doesn't have power.
This winter I've got studded snows for the first time ever, the car should be unstoppable...

I've never needed extra weight in my 240D, I do in my 190D which is nearly but not quite as good in the snow. That car wants ~100# in the trunk. A 300D with more power I would think would want 200# or so. Tube sand is good trunk weight as it'll help you if you get in trouble on ice. If I were going into serious back country I'd carry some traction mats too.

A regular 400watt MB block heater will allow a 240D to start at -20F in ~ 1 hour. The car will start with 1 glow like its July. To make this happen in the back country go to Autozone (or whatever) and spend $60 on a 110ah marine battery and $100 on a good 400 watt inverter. Put the battery in the trunk (theres a good portion of your weight), it should fit nicely in one of the wells. Connect the inverter, run an extension cord to the block heater and give it some time. I did this for a couple years when I lived in an apartment and couldn't plug the car into the house. If you were super high class you could wire the car to charge the battery when you were driving. You'd want to be careful with it so that battery couldn't draw down the starting battery though.

-Curt

[pawoSD]

I've never really had a problem with my car in the winter, it always starts fine even in the super cold, and I've never gotten so stuck that I couldn't burninate my way back out again. I am just using regular Michelin Destiny tires too...they grip pretty well. I currently live in a place with some significant hills though and an alleyway, sooo....it will be interesting to see how that goes in the snow....not sure if the alley gets plowed. With the hills the biggest issue is going to be stopping, not going. Reverse thrusters come to mind!

When push comes to shove though, these cars are snow tanks. I've blasted down a road with snow as deep as my front bumper before when I had to. I got some speed up, and plowed right in with my foot to the floor. 1/2 mile later I emerged victorious. Didn't get stuck, if I had had to stop along the way I'd have been toast though.

[babymog]

AWD on snowies, nothing like it. Doesn't matter if it's a Land Rover, a quattro, even a Subie. You just drive like it's summer all of the time, no long waits to pull into traffic.

However, in any city or highway, you'll still find yourself behind all of the FWD econoboxes on marginal tires trying to stay between the ditches, ... and slowing down the flow to whatever's considered "safe" in an unsafe car.

So, unless you plan to traverse deep snow or off-road, good ice tires all-around on a decent vehicle with a pair of cable-chains in the trunk is more than adequate.

[pawoSD]

If I have the money for multiple cars some day I am going to get a ML or G-wagon for the winter months. A ML320 cdi or GL 500 would be sweet. Ah, dreams.

[StaggerLee]

If you've ever crossed Mt. Hood and dropped in towards Maupin, Warm Springs, etc... you'll see that red rock all over the place. It's some kind of volcanic material. It's basically Eastern Oregon dirt. Don't get it on your shoes/clothes or they'll become pink when you wash them.

If you're concerned about traction, put studded tires on all four and balance out the weight front and back. You'll never need chains again (unless they're required). You get enough ice in Portland to where studded tires make sense. 4wd doesn't do squat on the ice (unless you have studded tires).

I use a 2wd f-150 with studs on all four and some firewood in the back. I skied 62 days last winter (Stevens Pass, Crystal Mtn, Mt. Baker, Mt Hood, Mt Bachelor, Schweitzer, Whistler, etc...) and never had to put the chains on.

I highly recommend you spend your money on a set of 4 studded tires and save the rest for Apres Ski PBR's.