About to enter the 240D/300D world...talk me into it or out of it... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Cr from Texas · #16 10-01-2008, 10:33 PM

I would not trust what seller of car #1 tells you as I don't believe 30 mpg is real.

Other than that, I'd go for the least amount of rust. That's the tough fix on one this old. Look in the trunk for signs of leaking. The rear window seal in both if these is a likely trouble spot and difficult rust repair. 300 turbo is a lot faster but the automatic is expensive to repair.

dieselgeek · #17 10-01-2008, 10:39 PM

I think you will have way more in the car before you hand it off to your son or daughter than you imagined you would. I run a parts biz and can get Mercedes parts relatively cheaply but I am still amazed by how much I have spent on an SD that was nearly free to buy. The collection of parts you are about to buy is pretty old as car parts go and many problems will need to be diagnosed first and parts replaced when they fail. The diagnosis alone can kill you in time and then there is collateral damage from throwing the wrong parts at a problem that you thought you had figured out. This forum helps a lot but there is some noise and holes in the data so there is learning curve on more than you expect. There are many easy fixes to be had but the parts cost can be downright evil. And forget buying any plastic trim parts from the dealer. If you can't find a good used colored plastic trim part, it will go unfixed when you price it at the dealer.

Counterpoint.

mbgizwiz · #18 10-01-2008, 11:15 PM

Sulawesi:
You sound like me a couple of years ago. I'm a mechanical engineer, have tinkered with cars for decades, and enjoy maintaining a fleet of fine machines that others have cast off as "too old".
I've had an '86 Volvo 240 wagon for ten years. I replaced seals, hoses, the pan gasket, clutch, etc. during a engine-bay-blitz once, and haven't had to do a thing to it since. It is hardly an exciting car, but I can haul anything from my own sorry self to a load of firewood, lumber or drywall with it, and it never fails me. Of my seven cars, it would be the last I'd sell, just on practicality alone.
I bought a '78 Benz 240d a couple of years ago. It's odometer had quit at 279k, so I imagine it's safe to say it has over 300k on it. It doesn't show the miles, because it was well kept, and it was so well built to begin with. It's a great, classy ride, and a hoot to bomb around in. Other's comments about the 4 speed are accurate, but I'm accustomed to leisurely shifting from many years of driving ratty VW bugs with much touchier transmissions in my youth. I drove a couple of A/T 240d cars before I bought mine, and was amazed at how they made my Volvo feel like an Alfa Romeo by comparison. With the manual, at least you can get off the line without a seemingly interminable wait. The four speed box is well made and easy to work on (in the unlikely event that it ever needs anything), unlike the A/T. Simplicity is a big selling point for me with older cars, since for me, "taking the car to the shop" means parking it in my garage until something that needs repair is taken care of.
I love the 240d primarily for its style and feel. Mine has nothing in the way of modern "amenities" like power windows. Even the sunroof is one that you push back with the muscles in your arm. Makes me feel alive every time I use it. The doors have that amazing and - so far as I'm aware - uniquely Benz-like "thunk" when you close them. Even the sunroof makes a satisfying "thunk" when opened or closed. The car rides great, too. There is something indescribable about the sensation I get going down the road in it that I've not had in any other car I've owned, as if the car itself is saying "I'm all about getting you there in class, take it easy". But it's not about being coddled, or covered in creature-comfort gimmicks. There's no leather, no climate control, no electric mirror tweakers or six-way electric seat adjuster systems. In fact, I have pool noodles in my driver's seat, which I put in one day after reading about them on this list in a what-the-hell moment, and have found to be 100% satisfactory.
Alas. Nothing is perfect. I'll probably be banned from this list after saying this, but I've had to face it: I'm not a diesel person. I don't like the vibration, the noise, or the smell. I don't like having to go for second gear to climb a moderate hill. My original scheme was to buy a 240D with a blown engine, along with a late '80s Toyota Cressida with body damage, and stick that fabulous DOHC six banger into the Benz.
I wound up with a Benz that ran perfectly well, too nice to butcher. As it happens, I also wound up with a nice low-miles Cressida for a song. I put a five speed from a Supra in it, and now have a Supra Quattroporte. It's a dated Asian luxo-box with electric everything, which I detest, but it's a riot to drive, while I dream of having that kind of performance in a real car with soul like the Benz.
Maybe someday the diesel will go "bonk" and I'll follow through with my blasphemous scheme.
Anyway, good luck with your decision, and have fun tinkering with your son.

turbobenz · #19 10-01-2008, 11:29 PM

300d is probably the better choice for your kids first car. it was my first car, which I totaled. It was a very bad accident and the car was hit in the worst possible place but I didn't get harmed at all.

The 300d has more power, which in my opinion makes it safer. A 300D will pull 13-14 second 0-60's, a 240D is supposed to be above 20 seconds.

240D is simpler, but their both simple and both really reliable. the 240D will get a few more mpg but the turbodiesel engine is more efficient, so you get more bang for your buck. Id go for the 300D as a first car. Dont forget about sd's either, their good too.

DubMutant · #20 10-02-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulawesi

Nothing more expensive...that gives me pause. Don't get me wrong, I am not in the poor house here, but I want something practical rather than a love affair...thanks for the comment, and your list of things to check out is very very helpful

Oh, BTW, go for the 300D. gobs more get up, torque and big plus, a turbo. If you want real simplicity, go with the 4 speed, all manual, 240 which may turn out to be less headache in then end. Ive learned that the fewer bells and whistles, the fewer things go wrong...which is why i purchased one of these cars in the 1st place. Problem is, tho, I like things as close to perfect as I can get them, if not better.
This attitude and these cars is a recipe for long term, deep rooted, tar-baby- (for me at least) ... the harder I punch this car (or try to get it back to "perfect") the deeper in I get....tar baby....Winnie-the Pooh reference.
If you are want to just use it until it is no longer drivable, I say why not. That is what I am going to do with mine, as I feel these cars were built to drive.
I love these cars; they have a strange magnetic appeal to me, simple, classy, over engineered to a dizzying, mind numbing factor. Pure German craftsmanship at it's production best.
My surgeon told me once, "be smart or be sorry." Words I will always remember.

t walgamuth · #21 10-02-2008, 05:47 AM

I agree that the 240d is the best for youngsters to drive....excellent handling, brakes and crashworthiness. Simple to work on but very very high quality...(better than volvo imho, and I had a volvo)....

The statement about the green antifreeze being a red light is not correct imho, (I have owned 30 benzes). It applies if the car has an aluminum head or block or both....these cars have iron block and head.

The biggest redlight is the rust. Its tough to repair if structural but if its not too bad you can just drive it with it....although if its too bad down underneath the drivers seat will begin to sink through the floor, so check that carefully.

Good luck in your search.

Tom W

vstech · #22 10-02-2008, 10:13 AM

First Car? for a teen boy? DEFINITELY go with the 4Speed! it's a skill that will serve him for ages, AND it will keep him off the cell phone in traffic! seriously. you CANNOT use a cell phone and shift gears and steer and drive at the same time. and forget about using speakerphone in there... just too much car noise for that. maybe a wireless headset would be comfortable with a stick, so keep him from getting one.
teens have SO MUCH TROUBLE driving without distractions, adding in friends and cellphones is just begging for trouble.
things to look for:
look at the battery tray. take a 11 or 12 mm wrench with you, and pull the battery out and look under it for serious rust. cought early it's not too bad to fix, but if it's into the firewall and fenders, you can get a pretty good bath in the rain... look in the hood spring pockets as well.
get a good flashlight, and look over the upper and lower control arm bushings. the upper is pretty easy to change, the lower is quite expensive labor and tool wise. if there is cracking or gaps in the rubber, prepare for some serious working to DIY the lowers.
look over the rear end CV boots, cracks are normal, but a sign that it's due new axles. cracked and leaking or taped... definitely needs new axles.
look at the drive shaft, the front and rear connectors are called flex disks, age cracks forming? they gotta get changed!!! while you are under there, look at the center bearing. is it all rusted and torn up? another thing to change.
when test driving the car, the steering should be crisp and the handling should be tight. if it's loose, or squeeky, you're going to need front end parts.
start them cold. don't give the glow plugs time to heat up. just instantly crank. does it start? how long of cranking does it take? when it starts is it lopey or rough? turn it back off and this time let the glow plugs churn for 35 seconds, then crank it again. smooth start?
when it's running, pop the hood and pull the oil fill cap off, and notice the amount of smoke blowing out. put the cap loosely on there, and see how much it rattles, or if it blows off altogether...
that's a pretty good list.
oh, and look at the instrument clusters. both those speedo's should have an aluminum dot in the center on all three gauges. the 300D should have a tach and it should work.
tell us what you find.

barry123400 · #23 10-02-2008, 01:01 PM

I suspect one should be tempermentally suited to buy an old mercedes diesel. I agree with a lot of the prior posts on your thread. They are not for everybody and one requirement in my opinion to be practical is you should be willing to get your hands dirty and enjoy repaiing items. This sounds like you.

Conversly some people cannot seem to really differentiate the requirements from owning a current car with very few miles on it. There is a world of difference in my opinion. I just hope they have deep pockets to pay for service whenever required. If they posess no self confidence in repair proccedures they will either learn (that is a good thing in my opinion) or suffer one way or another. It really cannot be disputed that in accidents these cars tend to stand up far better than the majority.

It is also harder for a young person to hurt themselves by showing off in a 240d. Pretty safe car all around compared to many that our children might want. Also they are an experience that one is unlikley to forget with time. Cars like these will never be made again. So I think it is a fair statement they are worthwhile for the experience itself. Hopefully welcome to the twilight zone where things are not always as they appear.

Yet the support for owners is perhaps second to none with this site.

moon161 · #24 10-02-2008, 05:40 PM

If you live where freeway driving and merging is required, the 240D has almost no reserve power to tap when all you see in the rearview is "KCAM". My daily drive has a couple spots go/no go decision point or two. Even w/ the volvo I could generally go down the ramp, and kick it down if I needed, but not w/ the benz 240D. It's completely possible to have someone in your trunk if your situation awareness and judgement is not there. Town or a small city, go for it.

alfa 75 · #25 10-02-2008, 06:58 PM

A 300D will go up a steep hill much better than a 240D.. something to keep in mind depending on where you live.

zeke · #26 10-02-2008, 06:59 PM

Naahhh, San Antonio has 2 interstate loops, and 3 interstate highways, so getting around town requires merging onto interstates using short entrance ramps typical of urban areas and I have never felt scared that I was going to be rear ended merging. You have to drive conscientiously, no doubt, but a manual 240D does just fine keeping up with modern traffic.

babymog · #27 10-02-2008, 07:06 PM

Still is. ;~)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

.....it was <> owned by a weird guy.

fdanielson · #28 10-02-2008, 08:02 PM

If you read this site enough you'll see two recurring themes. One is that this is a group of people who take a certain amount of pride in owning and maintaining a well running older vehicle and that leads the the dreaded 'compulsion to over repair'. The other is that 123 chassis diesels can be way into wear tolerances on a lot of things an still run around pretty darn well. You can pick up an inexpensive 240D or 300D and just drive it around if you can live with all of the small things that don't work right.

The problem is that a lot of things on these cars work as a system and tend to wear out as a system. For example let's say you have some oil leaking on the passenger side of the motor, a rough idle, and the air cleaner is shaking around. What is most likely happening is that the rubber mounts on the air cleaner have broken and the drain line from the oil separator is no longer connected so now oil is dripping on your motor mounts and deteriorating the rubber. After removing the air cleaner you notice that the mounting bracket has also cracked. Being a handy guy and not the kind of person who is willing to do a half-ass job you end up replacing the motor mounts, air cleaner bracket, oil drain tube o-rings, air cleaner mounts, upgrade to the new style breather tube for the air cleaner, possibly replace one or more worn out motor shocks, and probably replace the turbo drain tube seal since it's leaking a little bit also and you're down in that area anyway. Don't forget the rubber rings that seal the air cleaner to turbo tube since those are all hard and distorted. The good news is that after you do all this correctly the first time you will not likely be doing it again for some time.

The alternative is that you could remember to check the oil regularly and learn to say 'it's a diesel what do you expect?' and go on your merry way.

Sulawesi · #29 10-12-2008, 11:12 PM

I have driven two 240Ds since starting this thread...

I like these cars. My son loves them. He cites great steering, tight turns (easy to park) and visibility around the sides and rear. He love the character of the car..

I have found a very clean pricey one (w/ an automatic), and a less expensive horror (loose steering, oil leaks, vaccum leaks, etc, etc).

What is the top end price for a clean original 240D with low mileage?

I still haven't driven my manual 4-speed yet...busy life.

Thanks again, so far!

bd1308 · #30 10-13-2008, 01:58 AM

I have always loved the 300D. I flew out to VA to buy one from a friend of a friend, it has terrible camber problems, but still made it 600 miles back home without one bad encounter (I pulled over once because I thought the car could use a break--but I was just being paranoid)