I want some buyers advice from the forum. I want an inexpensive and reliable vehicle. I have heard that 240D are great cars but as slow as a turtle on quaaluuds (sp?). I have a 99 VW Jetta TDI which is remarkably quick for a diesel. I don't expect anything like that. Any advice? I have been looking at 300D and TD wagons from the 80's and a few 240D from the late 70's. Most have around 200K on the clock. Any models to stay away from? Any models that are must buys? I really like the wagons but they are harder to find. Are the gas cars as long lasting as the diesels? Any experiences buying on EBAY?
Sorry about all the questions, just value the experiences on this forum.

I wouldn't buy a car on eBay unless I could personally inspect it before I bid, or the seller would allow rejection of purchase upon inspection. I just bought an 87 300DT for far less than the previous owner paid -- he didn't want to lose his deposit when the car wasn't as advertised. I'm out at least a head gasket, probably a head, and he paid market price.

If you are used to old diesels, the 240 gets slightly better milage, but if you aren't, the takeoff performance will be a real "pucker" experience for a while. Slow isn't really a good description -- the 220D and 240 just don't accelerate until they are up to at least 25 mph. At least the 240 has a torque converter -- my old 220D has a fluid coupling -- engine RPM is only about 600 rpm higher than transmission speed, period.

0-60 times for the 220D are on the order of 21 sec, and that is new! Be prepared to floor the accelerator through the kickdown switch all the time -- won't hurt a thing! If you let up it upshifts, and accerleration dramatically slows!

The 300 is much better, but low speed acceleration is still leisurely unless you floor it and get the transmission to downshift (they start in 2nd gear otherwise).

As far as models go, any W123 (240 and 300 from 79 to 85) in good condition is fine. The W124 chassis is also very good (300 from 86 to 92). Avoid the 190s -- they have a reputation for bad quality and high maintanence. Good examples exist, but only if maintained impeccably.

The older S series (116 chassis) are rustbuckets, and a pain to work on, too. Engine and transmission are fine, everything else goes to perdition.

The W126 chassis (300SD and SDL, assorted gas models) 82-92, are excellent. They can go to bits if abused, but otherwise are superb cars.

The only "must have" is the 87 300D turbo -- it has the six rather than the 5 cylinder diesel and is FAST (which is why I bought one with a bad motor for too much money). It has the same horsepower as the gas model! Gets upward of 30 mpg, too. Unfortunately, they are usually also VERY high milage and/or junk these days. Be extra carefull if you find one.

Have fun shopping! Once you drive a Benz........

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Another point to consider is how "inexpensive" do you want? For the same money, you generally get a better 240D than 300D. That is, for perhaps $5000 you could get a pristine 240D or a nice 300D; for $3000 you could get a nice 240D or a mediocre 300D; etc.

If I was in the position to buy a car right now, I'd search long and hard for an 82-85 300CD in good condition. I just LOVE the 123 coupes!

- Nathan
'83 240D "Steiner"
'00 New Beetle TDI

Also, do not disregard the 190's that have 5-speeds. I

With respect to quality, I have had much experience with 123, 124 126 and 201 diesels (no 115's and 116's, yet!), and they all have their plusses and minuses. I do not think that the 201's are any better or worse on quality and/or operation. Indeed, an early 201 2.2 is been my family's highest mileage car to date, and it has required little more than fluids and fuel.

Most preferable of the 201's is the 2.5 l with a five speed, but even the 2.2's are quite fun.

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Jovan

'84 (11/83) 190D 2.2 5-Speed; Silver/Blue; Motor No. 00354, 402k mi (340+kmi mine)

'89 Porsche 911 Turbo Coupe; Black/Black; 53kmi
'05 BMW 530i 6-Speed; 302kmi
'19 Range Rover; 30kmi

The reason I suggest avoiding the 190s is the recommendation of my local indy mechanic -- he says the does a lot more expensive work on them at lower milage than on other models, and I will take his word.

They aren't quite the car the other contemprary models were, being much lighter, etc. If they have been very well maintained I suspect they aren't too bad, but there are a couple in the "you pull apart" junk yards, while there are no other MBs newer than a few very badly smashed 123s.

Diesels are MUCH better than gas models for some reason, cracked heads aside.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

I have a 240-D 4 speed. I love it. It is a bit slow but once you get it up to speed you'll never notice the lack of power. I always cruise at 75-80 with no problems. If you come across a good deal you should buy it.

A couple of suggestions...try to find one from an owner who has maintenance records....MOST IMPORTANT on the 123 diesels are regular oil changes (especially on turbo models) and valve clearance adjustments.

Dont buy a car with 120,000 miles on it with a recent valve job!! The only reason it needed a valve job at such low mileage is that the owner never took care of it...never adjusted the valve clearances.

If you cant find a car with documented oil changes and valve clearance adjustments, you must take it to a mechanic and have the compression checked...you want compression at or above 300 psi in all cylinders...burnt valves will show up as low compression in one or more cylinders.

There were so many of these cars imported to the US, and so many owners simply lose interest in them, there are a lot of real good ones out there for low cost.

I bought an 85 300D Turbo and I am very happy with the performance (auto trans, speed, acceleration, etc.) and I have done lots of work on it. BUT, I about a year after I bought this, I found my dream car... the absolute coolest 240D..early 80's euro model... standard shift, euro headlights, original pumkin paint (the coolest!!!), no rust, with matching painted wheel covers, all manual controls (windows, heat, etc.) with brown houndstooth fabric seats and door panels (the absolute coolest) in mint condition, garaged, records, original owner, 105K miles for $5,500....I tried to convince (begged) my wife that this was the car for her....she didnt want a diesel and I couldnt get rid of my car with all the repairs I had done....I still have dreams about that car!!

Good Luck

I have gone the route of the 300D's and am quite impressed with the acceleration on my D-T. The car is tight, quick and quiet. At 90 it seems to be merely coasting with perhaps half the pedal left. My TD feels like it is working much harder at speeds of 75-80 but the ride is wonderful. I have heard a number of guys on the forum advising against a 240 automatic.

Don

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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

The 240 D is quiet a different car than a turbo charged 300 D or SD is, I have both a 74 240 D and an 81 SD and to say one is my favorite would be like a parent picking one child over another. My 240 is manual,and it sort of reminds me of a 2002 BMW with a John Deer engine. But once you get used to it's lack of blinding accelration and learn how to use it's tourque range I find it very fun to drive especialy on back roads, it's only real problem is that it takes a lot of road to pass another car and you do a lot of shifting on grades.
The Sd however is of course a much larger and more refined car,you can drive all day with out tireing. It's accelaration is fine once you get used to taking off in second gear and once up on boost it will pass and climb grades feeling more like a gasoline powered vehicle.
William Rogers....

A 240D with a stick is definitely your mileage-miser, but it all depends on what you are looking for personally. If you like the ride of a Cadillac, go for a W126 300SD, if you like a big car that can be thrown around like a Mini, then go for the W116 300SD (my personal favorite!). If you prefer a midsize, then the 240 or 300D turbo is right for you. Same goes for the wagon and so on...

As these guys have mentioned, just be wary of shady maintenance records and have the car checked out by a mechanic familiar with these cars. Most expensive things include: climate control, hydraulic suspension (wagons only), vacuum locking system, etc..etc..

I drove my '80 300SD (W116) for the past five years now and it's been a wonderful machine. I have sold it to TXBill who is taking delivery on the 19th of October. I'll surely be sad to see 'Eduardo' leave, but I decided I wanted a W108 280SE for my new daily driver and happened to find one in one of my favorite color combinations (british racing green/tan), and it has zero rust and a rebuilt engine to boot! 280SEs aren't particularly "collectible" per se, so I'm not worried about putting one on the road in the winter.

Well, good luck with your search, I've owned three 240Ds myself and have loved every one of them. One was a stick, and our neighbor bought it from me. The other two were automatics and one is now sitting in TXBill's driveway (the light blue one)!

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Regards,
Aaron

One thing you forgot to tell was how much you wanted to spend? or how much your willing to spear (working on the car).

Not wanting to be bias but I had the choice between two good looking MB'S (240 8? and 300CD 82). The choice was clear when I drove the 240....I took the 300CD for $6000 CAN (that's spare change for you guys...)

The acceleration is adequate and I don't necessarily slow the traffic at lights...

w123 are nice models and great car..

Daniel