Thoughts about GM and diesel cars - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

F18 · #16 11-14-2008, 09:58 AM

Its funny but still tragic to witness 3 iconic US auto manufacturers struggling with the US market.....but some of them seem to be right on and highly successful developing and delivering products to the European market & UK including efficient diesels built in their European plants.
All the new European diesel products from Ford and GM have the lowest emissions of any diesel..... C02 is 98g/km and have very low particulate output that meet our Fed requirements and the more stringent CARB regs that 5 states use. (I am refering to the new Ford Fiesta ECOnetic Diesel)

Those products are already designed, developed, tested and delivered over there. How much could it take for Ford or GM to put some of that finished product in a container and ship it here for a test of the US market. They already put out test fleets of electric and prototype technology into certain areas of the US under a lease to private individuals and companys then bring them back in for analysis.....then they ususally crush them! Why not use some of that money to test a completed vehicle platform that is a proven seller in Europe??

Europe was the birthplace of Diesel but it could be reborn here!

LUVMBDiesels · #17 11-14-2008, 10:22 AM

What they would have to do is start a very expensive and long running marketing campaign to trumpet the benefits of Diesels. As was mentioned in a previous post the perception in this country is that Diesels are smelly, smoky, and slow. The reality is that my 1986 SDL has returned 33.5 mpg on the highway and that was at 70mph in a BIG car. I pity those people in Honda Fits and Chevy Aveos as I cruise past them.

Our domestic companies need to start bringing in Diesels from Europe and back them with unlimited power-train warranties, or at least protect them for twice as long as gassers. They also need to bring them in inexpensively and sell them at a discount to taxi fleets and to municipalities. Once the taxi drivers start talking about how RELIABLE and EFFICIENT they are the public will respond.

Government also needs to do two things.

1) Set strict standards for Diesel fuel with a minimum cetane of 50 (In Europe the cetane rating is in the 60's I believe)

2) Set reasonable emission standards. Since Diesels use less fuel, their overall emissions are lower. Standards can be tough, but not to the point where it kills off the engine technology.

showme · #18 11-14-2008, 10:34 AM

I may be wrong on this, (as I usually am, according to my wife), but it seems to me that just when the American people started seeing the light, per se, in diesels and their benefits, including longevity, (i.e., less new cars sold due to longer lasting engines), is about when the oil companies quit allowing diesel prices to drop below gas prices. Even if they only let it happen in the summer months, which was ridiculous due to actual cost of refining compared to gas, it still helps people to swing their support behind diesels. Funny how when the guys I know started trading their gassers for long life, low maintenence diesels, the summer time price flips stopped coming. I think, once again, big oil and the big 3 got scared of losing their profits from gas guzzlers and throw-away cars and tried to head the wisdom off at the pass. Just a thought. My wife would probably disagree.

F18 · #19 11-14-2008, 10:45 AM

Showme.....same boat.......like the saying "if I am out sailing and she is not there, if I say something am I still WRONG?"

Gene Horr · #20 11-14-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I would think any engine unreliable the first time a head gasket blew with under 100K miles.

Sixto
87 300D

100k? Those engines were lucky to make 20k. GM wound up replacing just about all of them with gasoline. It wasn't a completely bad design. The units that were on the good end of the bell curve wound up lasting quite a long time. Reference the car & driver article on beater diesels for an example. But the majority would barely make it out of warrenty (12 months/12k miles in those days) and then self destruct.

There were gasoline->diesel conversions happening at that time and the stories of those get mixed up with the GM fiasco. The GM engines were "real" diesels, not conversions. Just badly designed ones.

On GM in general you should read up on the Perot incident. Whenever an auto manufacturer is spending more money on researching pinstrips than they do on engine design something is out of whack. And when you then pay US$ 50 million to shut up the one person who is pointing out this fact IMO you are probably beyond help.

#21 11-14-2008, 12:03 PM

What they need to do is to run a bunch of ads like the following to promote the Diesel Advantages and squash the old Diesel myths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNohz53NCk

awsrock · #22 11-14-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

What they need to do is to run a bunch of ads like the following to promote the Diesel Advantages and squash the old Diesel myths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNohz53NCk

Haha, that is great.
I also love how my car hardly makes any vapor from the exhaust in the cold. My last car was like a fog machine

Jeremy5848 · #23 11-14-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F18

. . . The one that steps forward first with a new affordable passenger diesel in the US wins! . . .

It is certainly true that, during the Arab oil embargo of the early 80s, the VW diesel Rabbit was really hot – folks here in NorCal were driving all over the north half of the state trying to find a dealer who would sell them a diesel Bunny and paying List + $5K for it. Perhaps that could happen again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F18

. . . I was a conservation major in college and I drove a 65 VW Bug (with the 6volt system) that got 37 mpg on the Highway all through college and beyond.

Ah, one of those rich kids who could afford a car.

I had an 80cc Yamaha. BTW, my wife still has her '69 Beetle, which she bought new.

Jeremy

dieseldan44 · #24 11-14-2008, 12:52 PM

At least here in the northeast, there is a market for diesels right now, especially amongst the younger generation. You have a really hard time getting a late model VW TDI, they are highly coveted new and used under 50k miles.

Recently, here in MA the restriction on selling diesel cars new was lifted, finally.

dd

F18 · #25 11-14-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

What they need to do is to run a bunch of ads like the following to promote the Diesel Advantages and squash the old Diesel myths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPNohz53NCk

I agree......they also could easily start with ads in existing US Diesel Magazines which are already subscribed to here in the States and found on just about every magazine stand including the one in Walmart. All these magazines are right now Truck related (I counted at least 3 to 4) but they already reach a diesel oriented consumer base that would also be in the market for a family passenger diesel vehicle or economic commuter can.

F18 · #26 11-14-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It is certainly true that, during the Arab oil embargo of the early 80s, the VW diesel Rabbit was really hot – folks here in NorCal were driving all over the north half of the state trying to find a dealer who would sell them a diesel Bunny and paying List + $5K for it. Perhaps that could happen again.

Ah, one of those rich kids who could afford a car.

I had an 80cc Yamaha. BTW, my wife still has her '69 Beetle, which she bought new.

Jeremy

I loved that 65 VW....it had dimples all over it from when the previous owner drove through a a hail storm in Illinois (paid $137. for it). The only thing I have left now is the little white mushroom shaped shift knob...................

Hatterasguy · #27 11-14-2008, 01:04 PM

Simple, their is no profit in diesels, the diesel car market in the US is dead.

Throw in the very high cost of making them meet currant emissions standards, with the high cost of diesel and you have somewhat of a perfect storm.

They cost a ton to make, with not guarantee that your larger markets like CA won't just ban them. People don't want to buy them because diesel can be hard to find and it costs $1 or more per gallon that RUG.

The diesel car will never come back in this country, its over.