stuck on the off ramp - fun times Manual 240D - HELP! - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

curtludwig · #46 11-25-2008, 10:08 AM

I thought of you on Sunday, I was replacing the UCAs on my '83 240D (also a $400 car!) and accidentally knocked the hose from the brake master cylinder to the clutch master off, brake fluid everywhere! Fortunately I only lost like an ounce and had no problems.

It sounds like you've got a small leak that you haven't noticed over time. I'd suggest sitting (and feeling foolish) in the car and letting it run with the pedal down for 10-15 minutes. Then spend another 10-15 minutes slowly pumping the pedal up and down. If you could drive around while doing this that'd be better. What needs to happen is the car wants to vibrate to let the air work up through the brake fluid and out of the system. You might notice the fluid level going down a little and hopefully you'll notice the clutch coming back...

Otherwise tow it to somebody that knows hydalic clutches (most any mechanic). The parts for this shouldn't be so spendy but there will be some labor.

chetwesley · #47 11-26-2008, 02:05 AM

I made it home - 45 miles no clutch... safe and sound in my driveway away from any wayward flying eggs. Thanks for the advice guys, I'm sure I'll be asking more questions as I try to figure out what's up with this clutch.

jt20 · #48 11-26-2008, 02:09 AM

did the bleeding change anything?

chetwesley · #49 11-26-2008, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20

did the bleeding change anything?

I haven't done any proper bleeding yet. I figured it would be better to just get it home before it ran into any more unfortunate circumstances in that parking lot. It looks like I have something to do on Thanksgiving now.

chetwesley · #50 01-09-2009, 06:48 PM

So the bleeding was postponed - several months.

Well, I just *attempted* to bleed the system out with a pressure bleeder and the valve on the clutch slave cyl..

Method was

1) put pressurizer cap on brake/clutch reservoir
2) fill pressurizer with fluid
3) pressurize to 20
4) get under car and loosen slave cyl bleeder valve.

However, the bleeder valve didn't really work like a valve. I had a piece of tubing on it, and as I loosened it, no fluid was coming out of the tube, so I kept loosening. Before I knew it, the screw had fallen all the way out and there was suddenly fluid squirting everywhere. I even got to taste a drop of it. Yum.

So after frantically finding the screw, luckily attached to the tubing still (or else who knows how long it would have taken to find it under the car in the shade), I managed to screw it back in and stop the bleeding.

So I have no idea really how much fluid I bled out because it is just soaked into the gravel, or if I got the air out. I would assume that if fluid is squirting out, that the air is out, but I don't know.

So while parked with the car off, I put it through all the gears and it seemed to go into all of them. However, when I started it, it was the same story as before - would not go into gear while running.

When I shut it off, one thing was different, I could put it into reverse while shut off, which I could not do before... I backed it out of the driveway and back in in reverse to reposition it to be easier to work on, and now it seems it will not go back into reverse.

So pretty much I am still where I was before.

To summarize my situation, as it has been a while and a long thread to read:

1. Clutch suddenly stopped working one day while on the freeway. It was discovered that I was low on fluid and that the clutch hydraulic system probably gulped air.

2. Filled up with fluid and does not seem to have leaked any noticeable amount since then. No fluid found on inside of car under master cyl, no obvious evidence of fluid coming out of the slave either.

3. Drove home 45 miles in sf bay freeways without clutch (fun adventure).

4. Attempted to bleed system with power bleeder as described above - don't know if I did it right or got the air out.

Advice appreciated!

Stevo · #51 01-09-2009, 07:37 PM

Post #23

chetwesley · #52 01-09-2009, 07:48 PM

So I just attempted to bleed the system one more time and it is the same story, though I did figure out what was up with my valve screw - it was clogged with gunk, so I took it out and let it slowly drip (no pressure applied) while I took it in the house and cleaned it out.

So I used up my whole 32oz bottle of brake fluid, which means I probably pushed all the old fluid out and then some.

Still acts exactly the same - clutch pedal also feels like it is offering not the right feeling of resistance when I push on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

Post #23

Thanks Stevo, but I was under the impression from what I have read so far that you could either use a power bleeder, or you could use the fsm prescribed way which requires two people and is much more cumbersome and slow. I have read up on both methods.

Can you clarify what you are suggesting?

Stevo · #53 01-09-2009, 08:16 PM

Do you have a pressure bleeder? I have never tried the vacuum method. Two people are not required, maybe you are thinking of brake bleeding, the old fashioned way.

lutzTD · #54 01-09-2009, 08:22 PM

I pressure bled my clutch, but I also pumped the clutch pedal under pressure with the bleed screw cracked. at this point you have 3 suspects, the slave cylinder, the master cylinder and the clutch in that order of difficulty to replace. if you got gunk out of the slave bleed screw chances are the whole system is dirty and worn. BTW, I replaced the entire system one part at a time, it would be easier to do it all at once. I believe someone posted a way to verify the clutch is ok, if thats the case then I would replace the cylinders and flush the lines.

chetwesley · #55 01-09-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

I pressure bled my clutch, but I also pumped the clutch pedal under pressure with the bleed screw cracked. at this point you have 3 suspects, the slave cylinder, the master cylinder and the clutch in that order of difficulty to replace. if you got gunk out of the slave bleed screw chances are the whole system is dirty and worn. BTW, I replaced the entire system one part at a time, it would be easier to do it all at once. I believe someone posted a way to verify the clutch is ok, if thats the case then I would replace the cylinders and flush the lines.

When you say you pumped the clutch pedal under pressure with the bleed screw cracked, what is the purpose of doing that, would it get air out of a part that I may not have gotten at with my bleed? Honestly I am going on this kind of blind and trying to piece it together from what people have said here and there.

I've read up a bunch on it and seen all kinds of things from the FSM method to one person saying that just filling up with fluid and driving around without using the clutch would bleed the air. I just went for what seemed like the most reasonable way to do it by myself.

Do you mean that the whole time (or at least for a while) while it was bleeding, you were pumping the clutch?

lutzTD · #56 01-09-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chetwesley

When you say you pumped the clutch pedal under pressure with the bleed screw cracked, what is the purpose of doing that, would it get air out of a part that I may not have gotten at with my bleed? Honestly I am going on this kind of blind and trying to piece it together from what people have said here and there.

I've read up a bunch on it and seen all kinds of things from the FSM method to one person saying that just filling up with fluid and driving around without using the clutch would bleed the air. I just went for what seemed like the most reasonable way to do it by myself.

Do you mean that the whole time (or at least for a while) while it was bleeding, you were pumping the clutch?

I tried pressure from below per the FSM but all that did was leak from the threads of the bleed screw. I tried vacuum from below and again it just pulled air through the threads on the bleed screw. I then tried pressure from the brake reservior and it seemed to only get it part of the way. then I tried pumping the pedal 5-6 times with my hand until the fluid came out steady and strong and that worked the best for me. I know the purists here will flame me but this is what worked for me and I have done it 3 times because I installed all of the old parts from the donor, then replaced the slave then the master and for good measure the supply hose from the res to the master

chetwesley · #57 01-09-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

Do you have a pressure bleeder? I have never tried the vacuum method. Two people are not required, maybe you are thinking of brake bleeding, the old fashioned way.

Yea, I have a pressure bleeder. Did you read my post? (#50)

chetwesley · #58 01-09-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

I tried pressure from below per the FSM but all that did was leak from the threads of the bleed screw. I tried vacuum from below and again it just pulled air through the threads on the bleed screw. I then tried pressure from the brake reservior and it seemed to only get it part of the way. then I tried pumping the pedal 5-6 times with my hand until the fluid came out steady and strong and that worked the best for me. I know the purists here will flame me but this is what worked for me and I have done it 3 times because I installed all of the old parts from the donor, then replaced the slave then the master and for good measure the supply hose from the res to the master

Ok maybe I should clarify what I did since it seems there are several ways to pressure bleed.

My pressure bleeder hooks to the brake/clutch reservoir. I screwed the pressure bleeder onto the cap, then pressurized the system with the pump on the bleeder (up to about 20psi) and went under the car and opened the bleeder valve on the slave until a bunch of dirty looking fluid had passed through and it seemed that only clear fluid was coming out. Then I closed the valve on the slave. That's it.

How were you able to see the fluid coming out while pumping the clutch pedal (I mean physically, if you were pumping the pedal, how could you see what was going on at the slave cyl)? Were you bleeding from the brake bleeder, or the slave cyl bleeder?

Also, I should note that the fluid seemed to be coming out steadily from the bleeder valve with no burps or air that I could see.

lutzTD · #59 01-09-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chetwesley

How were you able to see the fluid coming out while pumping the clutch pedal (I mean physically, if you were pumping the pedal, how could you see what was going on at the slave cyl)? Were you bleeding from the brake bleeder, or the slave cyl bleeder?

I used a pressure bleeder on the brake master. I pumped the pedal by hand, and I use a clear line from the bleed screw to a catch can so I can see fluid color and bubbles

chetwesley · #60 01-09-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

I used a pressure bleeder on the brake master. I pumped the pedal by hand, and I use a clear line from the bleed screw to a catch can so I can see fluid color and bubbles

Ok I am getting more confused

Are you talking about bleeding a manual transmission or the brakes? I thought it was different to bleed just the clutch.

Can I bleed the clutch without opening the clutch slave cylinder bleeder?

Maybe to help clarify, I was following instructions given to me in this thread:http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/85601-where-clutch-bleed-screw.html#post556008

specifically in this post: Where is the clutch bleed screw?