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  #16  
Old 12-07-2008, 07:48 PM
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Concerning the Injectors it is really a matter of every little bit helps. To make starting easier you would like everthing on your engine to be working the best it can including the Injectors.
Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is the pull the and have them tested or have them rebuilt and unless you can do it yourself it will cost some.

If your Glow Plugs and Starter system are in order the thing to do that cost nothing is to re-adjust your valves. Some Members have reported doing so to be a big improvement in starting and power.
Next as previously stated at a slight cost changing to synthetic Oil; allowing the Engine to turnover easier when it is cold.

After that Camshaft and Fuel Injection Pump timing.

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Last edited by Diesel911; 12-07-2008 at 07:53 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
Before you waste any more time get the compressions checked.
Healthy motor should show 350 plus psi.

If it is close to 300 psi or lower, you will need faster engine cranking to get her started in the cold. Most diesels will start if cranking speed is better than 300 rpm as long as the engine is showing over 300 psi compression pressure.

ALL the glows must heat up for a successful cold morning start on any diesel with G/P's.

Alternatively....Living AND working at the top of a hill will help !
My book shows a minimum of 220 psi for reliable starting.
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
My book shows a minimum of 220 psi for reliable starting.
Does the book say at what the minimum temperature is that you can reliably start at with 220 psi?
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
My book shows a minimum of 220 psi for reliable starting.
With all due respect to the book Tom...the real world pressures required for all season starting are at least 300psi ASL.

I admit that here I have seen a few 1.5 and 1.6 VW diesels that ran fine in the summer with 265psi..but come winter they turned into driveway ornaments.

The last MB 300 I built for a customer ran 510psi to 520 psi. It originally ran 240 to 280 and would not start even with a booster battery last winter.

Before someone screams 'You can't get 520 psi !' ....don't forget the Ideal Gas Law of PV=nRT.


.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2008, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lycoming-8 View Post
..That said though, I drove the 1968 220D for 20 years using dino oil and the same set of loop GP's for that whole time. It would have serious problems starting only below 17deg F.
You had the same set of glow plugs for 20 years? Holy mother...

I didn't know the loop style were that robust. I just changed mine to the pencil type and bought them from Fastlane on this site..I didn't really look around, but I didn't expect to find them anywhere. I could be wrong though.

I can now glow for a shorter time and get it started with the same amount of cranking. And it'll start in the 20's after glowing for about 30 secs. Sometimes it takes a 2nd try. If it sounds like its not going to go, I stop and glow some more. But I try to plug it in at night when its cold...that works the best.
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  #21  
Old 12-13-2008, 06:36 PM
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Compression Test

I did a compression test today, probably found out the roots of the hard cold start...

#1 100PSI
#2 290PSI
#3 200PSI
#4 200PSI

Then I plugged an air regulator into the compression test injector adapter to try to see where the pressure was leaking to and discovered that the only air leakage was coming through the crank case..

Was curious if the turbocharged engines had the same stroke and bore, for a possible conversion to the turbo's pistons? Can these 4 cylinder engines be converted to use turbos reliably?

also on a drive back from seattle on thursday noticed that while on I5 any time id use the engine to slow the vehicle it would smoke.. thought at the time it was probably the valve seals, but I suppose its probably just the sloppy rings on the pistons..
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2008, 12:25 PM
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4 Cylinder 240 engine has no oil squirters for piston cooling.

Not to say they couldn't be installed with some machining/drilling/tapping.

Your engine is suffering from reduced radial ring pressure and increased end gaps.

You could get another 100,000 out of it with just a ring job.
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2008, 02:05 PM
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Yeah I canceled the turbo plan.. just gonna do rings. hopefully the pistons are still ok. Any words of wisdom, things to look for?

New plan is ;
headgasket
piston rings
rod & main bearings
valve seats ground
valve stem seals
wrist pin bushings

Curious though, how do you know when a timing chain needs to be replaced without having any documentation on dates or miles?

And should the tensioner and guides be replaced with the chain even if they appear to be in fine condition?

--Any one trying to sell a rebuildable turbocharged engine?--

Last edited by rummur; 12-14-2008 at 02:18 PM. Reason: add
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  #24  
Old 12-14-2008, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummur View Post

New plan is ;
headgasket
piston rings
rod & main bearings
valve seats ground
valve stem seals
wrist pin bushings

Curious though, how do you know when a timing chain needs to be replaced without having any documentation on dates or miles?

And should the tensioner and guides be replaced with the chain even if they appear to be in fine condition?

--Any one trying to sell a rebuildable turbocharged engine?--
I have built these and other engines for many years.
Your plan sounds good, but remember that with extra power comes extra fuel consumption....you just can't keep your foot out of it !

Stay with the stock motor configuration...it avoids many variables you will have to work around.

Apart from your list above I suggest you find out what the bore size is and obtain a set of next size up rings.

Also I strongly recommend a set of Total Seal rings. These seal the second ring land for better compression and less leak down of the ring set. It also compensates for a slightly worn piston....skirts, not ring lands. If the ring lands are beat up you will need to replace the pistons.

Installing next oversize rings will require you to fit them to each bore by filing the ends to allow them to fit the bore with about 0.008" end gap.
Although this is smaller than stock I find it works very well on all but race or heavy hauling motors.

Tensioner should be replaced as a matter of course, same as tensioner blade and tensioner piston assembly.

This goes for the chain too. This can be done with a chain kit that uses a 'master link'.

To further reduce internal contamination the exhaust valve and guides need to be the tightest the factory allows. The head should be dressed with a three angle seat cut and the valves should be back cut to increase flow and add a little power.

One word of caution : Do not advance over stock the injection pump timing thinking it will increase power...it will not. It will just make the engine run hotter and more noisy.
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  #25  
Old 12-14-2008, 06:03 PM
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Can these engines be easily rebuilt in-frame? Will the oil pan come off? it looked tight. Easier to just pull the engine?
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  #26  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:22 PM
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Yes...in a word.

You need to undo the engine mounts and jack the engine up in the chassis to slide the upper oil pan out.
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  #27  
Old 12-14-2008, 09:51 PM
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This is a very old engine... Did anyone mention the possibility that the glow plug holes need to be reamed of built up carbon ?
That would not change the recommendation that the newer style glowplugs be installed... that would be the logical time to ream that hole...
Lots of instruction on how to do that in the archives...
But if you could not change them you should still consider cleaning the area by reaming.
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2008, 03:07 AM
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I tried to pull the head tonight but couldnt figure out how to remove the timing chain tensioner. Any body know how to take it out of there? It seams to be pivoting from somewhere down in the block??
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2008, 07:12 AM
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The large chain tension rail pivots on a pin at the bottom. This is a part you need to replace as the material that contacts the chain is likely "original" and in a condition that is just not good. Same with the chain, but the time for that step is later.

The pin in question is pressed into the block from the front side of the engine. Clean the muck off the front and find it. It has a small, threaded hole in it. Clean the threads out too. Find a bolt that goes in there, and then a stack of washers that have a hole large enough to fit over the pin, or better a socket or sleeve you can center over the hole. Thread the bolt into the hole, through the washers or sleeve or socket from your toolkit. Snug it up and make sure the washers/sleeve/socket don't block the pin. Then use a wrench and tighten down on the bolt and pull the pin out.

When putting the thing back in, use the bolt, minus the spacers, to tap on to drive the pin back in.

Take care not to block the pin or, as someone recently found on the board, you will break the bolt off in the tapped hole, making life a bit more miserable.

In all likelihood you are going to find a head with gnurb built up under the valves. These old Diesels run with manifold vacuum at idle and as the valve seals wear or just get old and stiff and then crack, oil passes by and turns to tar/carbon on top of the valve, eventually blocking it from seating and blocking air from going into the cylinder. New guides, new seals, maybe a few new seats and you have a new head and the engine will start again.

Jim
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1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2008, 01:17 AM
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Is there a blow apart picture of the way this tensioning arm is situated? I cleaned the front of the block, and didn't find a pin with a threaded hole. took the water pump off, thinking it may be hiding behind it. There was a cap with a pin in it but its not whats holding the tensioner to the block, way to close to the fuel pump...

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