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  #16  
Old 12-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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that '10 seconds' is variable depending on ambient temps. The full relay remains the same all the time.
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2008, 02:19 PM
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from the FSM:

After a glow period of approx. 20 seconds a heater
pencil element temperature of 900 OW1652 OF will
be attained, after approx. 50 seconds the max. temperature
will be 1080 O~11976O F.

After a glow period of 9 seconds a pencil element
temperature of approx. 900 O~11652O F is attained,
after 30 seconds the max. temperature amounts to
1180 "~11976OF .


Oops I was wrong about the coolant sensor:

The temperature sensor installed up to now in coolant
circuit is no longer installed. Instead, the relay or relay
ambient temperature is obtained by means of an NTC
resistor in preglow time relay.

while I couldnt find written evidence of the entire glow length, all the graphs show b/w 60 and 80 seconds as the max time range.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad300tdt View Post
I used the clock in my dash as the timer for the 10 and 30 seconds I referred too.

Why would the timer circuit for the light click 20 seconds after the light actually goes out?
I actually used a stopwatch (on my phone). Mine clicks off at 33 seconds, consitistently. The FSM suggestions are for a new engine, not one with 300,000 miles!

So I guess you guys are suggesting that the glow plugs continue heating after the relay kicks off? Otherwise how would the temperature rise 30 seconds after the GP kicked off?

I would think a double glow would be more beneficial than 30 seconds after the glow is done on an older engine. But I have been wrong before...
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:50 PM
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haha, so true

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad300tdt View Post
Congratulations.

I guess things like this are why computer tech support people start by asking if your computer is plugged in.
haha...my mom always told me they wouldn't warn you of something if someone hadn't been stupid enough to do it before!
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2008, 03:53 PM
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yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
So now we are wondering how you got her to even ' start up and stall' if it was in reverse....
Instead of multiple glows... just leave the gp circuit engaged for a TIMED 60 seconds... that is what the FSM suggests...

well, it was in park before it stalled, when it stalled, i was reversing...and forgot to put it back in park.
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  #21  
Old 12-08-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graplr View Post
The FSM suggestions are for a new engine, not one with 300,000 miles!

So I guess you guys are suggesting that the glow plugs continue heating after the relay kicks off? Otherwise how would the temperature rise 30 seconds after the GP kicked off?

I would think a double glow would be more beneficial than 30 seconds after the glow is done on an older engine. But I have been wrong before...
I always find it amusing that people will argue with the Factory Shop Manual suggestions.... millions of dollars in Research and Development , made the car.. but don't actually know how it works... is the implication.. LOL

The FSM suggestions were for anyone experiencing starting problems which might be due to temperature...or their ambient light circuit or sensor not ' reporting ' correctly. Has nothing to do with number of miles.

I am suggesting that you may not be hearing the relay for the glowplugs... perhaps you are hearing the relay for the light circuit.... or something else...

I just know the FSM says the glow plugs continue to increase in temperature up to about 60 seconds.... remember that if you glow too short...and turn the engine over you have introduced cold air to the precombustion chamber and need to count out the preglow timing from the start again...
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
I just know the FSM says the glow plugs continue to increase in temperature up to about 60 seconds.... remember that if you glow too short...and turn the engine over you have introduced cold air to the precombustion chamber and need to count out the preglow timing from the start again...

That is very clever, sir. And a crucial point to be made.
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:05 PM
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Thank you jt20... yesterday the guy with the ' weak 240' would not accept our FSM readings... and introduced exactly that mistake...
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:07 PM
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I just found this in my FSM (15.8705/12 F3)
Quote:
If, upon indication of the ready-to-start condition, there is no start within 20-35 seconds, the glow current is interrupted by the safety shutoff. For a subsequent start, the glow system is again switched on for the duration of the starting procedure.
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:15 PM
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What is the safety shut-off? Causes?
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  #26  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:22 PM
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OK... time for a FSM SMACKDOWN...
LOL

In reading that... does that mean 20 seconds preglow, then 20-35 seconds of cranking with no start that the safety circuit then kicks in ?

That is very close to the 45-60 total glow we have been quoting... if that is how they meant that sentence...
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  #27  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:22 PM
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it says after the indicator light (which may be up to 30 seconds) goes out, the safety cuts out within 20-35 seconds thereafter.

I acquiesce, dear sir. Good catch.
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  #28  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
OK... time for a FSM SMACKDOWN...
LOL

In reading that... does that mean 20 seconds preglow, then 20-35 seconds of cranking with no start that the safety circuit then kicks in ?

That is very close to the 45-60 total glow we have been quoting... if that is how they meant that sentence...

agreed, but I was worng when I said the final shutdown was statically determined. It does depend on ambient temp as well.
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
What is the safety shut-off? Causes?
This is from the FSM. I didn't include the sections on "Switching of glow current" or"Fault indicator"

Quote:
Functions of the preglow time relay:

The preglow time relay has the following functions:

- Switching of glow current
- Ready to start indicator
- Safety shutoff
- Fault indicator

Ready to start indicator

A temperature sensor installed in the preglow time relay determines the duration of the glow period.

When the glow system is switched on, the preglow indicator lamp in the instrument clustrer lights up.

As soon as the required glow period, depending on ambient temperature of preglow time relay, has been attained, the preglow indicator lamp will go out and thereby indicate ready-to-start condition.

Safety Shutoff

If, upon indication of the ready-to-start condition, there is no start within 20-35 seconds, the glow current is interrupted by the safety shutoff. For a subsequent start, the glow system is again switched on for the duration of the starting procedure.
This tells me that if you don't start the car within 20-35 seconds after the glow light goes out, the relay clicks the glow plugs off.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2008, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad300tdt View Post
This tells me that if you don't start the car within 20-35 seconds after the glow light goes out, the relay clicks the glow plugs off.
Are you not saying the same thing jt20 and I are saying ?
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