I would forget about logic on this. Some sembalance of a discussion with this type problem almost always includes a statement like it cannot be wrong. It becomes even worse once the problem is corrected as even in hindsite the person seems unable to rationalise it. I even fully agree with your methology. That does not matter either unfortunatly.

The easiest way to quickly verify it is right. Do the fuel rise method in the number one injector element. The instructions are in the archives if you do not have them. Or a conventional drip test if it is easier for you.

At this point the bottom crank mark should be close to the drip or a little early. Twenty four degrees would be ideal before top dead centre. Most important is that the cam lobes are pointing in a general upward direction when the situation is achieved.

I really still think from your general description you have to check it. It should not take very long to verify it is right. It very well could be. You have to be certain though in my opinion. It has to be put to rest or otherwise you could chase other things forever.

Remember from your description of the problems it is about the simplest thing it could be probably at this point.

I agree 100 percent. I have made some pretty crazy mistakes in the past on jobs that I have done a lot. I was pretty meticulous on the disassemble because I knew very little about this motor. It is just moving parts, however, that just needed to go back the same way. I just received the drip tube and will look at it this weekend.

Happy or Merry Christmas, which ever way is politically correct.:D

Well, work has been very busy lately. I am in outside sales, so that is a good thing.

So, if there are still people interested, here is what I did today.

Removed the Fan and shroud so I could crank the motor over and still see the IP.

I removed the cylinder one injection line, cap to the cyl one delivery valve, removed the spring and small needle valve and left the o-ring and piston in there. Replaced the cap. and installed the drip tube.

I wired the throttle at WOT.

Cranked the engine over to double check crank to cam timing and it was right on the money. So that could be ruled out.

I cranked the engine over until it was at about 50 Deg btdc. Started to pump the hand pump. The fuel was flowing out really fast. I repeated this until I got to 24 Deg BTDC and it still flowed solidly and smoothly. I cranked the motor over in 1-2 degree increments repeating the pumping. When I was at 15 Deg BTDC i could see the flow slow way down when I pumped, no matter how many times i pumped it.

When I got to about 12-13 Deg BTDC the flow stopped and did the 1 drip per 10-15 seconds.

So this tells me I am about 11 degrees retarded on my IP timing right? And if I read correctly in other threads, I can only get 6 degrees of movement TOTAL from adjusting the IP, right? So I guess I will be pulling the IP and setting that back to factory.

To do that, Pull the pump, line up the markes on body and splines and reinstall in motor at 0 Deg BTDC and the re-do the IP drip method right?

THANKS for the help!

Carl

Just when you stopped dripping did you take notice of the position of the cam lobes? Perhaps you did but you did not mention it. This was a very important component of your particular pump timing test.

The front two cam lobes should have been pretty well upward oriented or more so if you continued to move the the harmonic balancer the additional 11 degrees to tdc. Important to verify in my opinion in your case still.

Just thought I would mention. Excuse me if you covered this. If not done still you have to check this. This test has nothing to do with the cam mark. You can have the mark exactly where it should be and still be 180 degrees out on the cam. If that is the case when the pump drip stops the cam lobes will be pointing in a much more downward direction.

They were pointing pretty much at 10 and 2 o'clock left and right, respectively. I am definitely not 180 out. Thanks for the clarification though.

I went ahead and pulled all off of the IP to prepare for removal and re-time. I am having one hell of a time pulling the bottom nut off the IP. I was trying from the top with 1/4 drive with swivel, 3/8 drive, etc. No success. If it isnt raining tomorrow, I will try fromthe bottom. I saw a pic on another thread of a 5 cylinder IP lower bolt being accessed from the bottom pretty easily.

So, since I am not 180 out, does it sound like my testing procedures are correct and I am in fact 11 or so degrees retarded? I mean the car is retarded, I definitely am.

your methodology is secure. Do you have a manual for the re-installation?

is this an old chain?

How do you know your cam and crank relation were 'right on the money'?

Delta,
You could allign the marks on the IP shaft,set the crank on 24 degreed BTDC on the compression stroke and install, OR set the IP shaft on the second tooth before the wider (missing)one on the IP splined gear with crank at 45 degrees BTDC.
Because the cam lobe is pressing against the 1-st pump element roller follower,it`s easy to lose the adjustment while trying to reinstall the pump-and the shaft could slide back a little.So you`ll end up with a retarded injection.
So the IP gear,the splined sleeve and the intermediate shaft have 68 splines/teeth. 1 tooth/spline correction=5,3 degreesX2=10.6 degrees correction counted on the crankshaft.One moves back the IP cam 2 splines(21 degrees on the crankshaft),so that the second tooth on the IP gear points agains the IP mark and installs the pump with the crank set at 45(24+21 correction)degrees BTDC on the compression stroke.Then the drip method...


Remove the start/stop cable from the IP lever and push it several times to and fro from stop to stop till it rests in operation position.No need to wire anything on this(vacuum governed) pump. Then do the drip test.

To set the idle speed-fist make sure you have no vacuum leaks on the vacuum governor plastic line and fittings(you say no vacuums goin to the IP,but I saw an orange plastic pipe connected to where it sould be on the IP governor housing.Without the vacuum,the engine would have revved up on starting.Make sure it`s leak-proof.It`s vacuum that controls the amount of fuel injected.Without it,the rack would be pushed up to full-delivery position by the control spring).Then disconnect the horisontal lever that goes to the intake duct and turn the crew that rests on the duct(the screw alteres the position of the flap inside-the vacuum created,that means) until the desired rpm is achieved(you were almost there when disconnected the lever).
Turn off the engine,remove the air hose and make sure the flap is moving freely when you push down the gas pedal lever-it shouldn`t touch the intake bore.Remove the idle control cable from the V-lever on the valve cover,then adjust the horisontal lever to the appropriate length.Reconnect.Now disconnect the vertical lever to the pump governor and adjust the length so that it has to be raised couple of milimetres before it could be coupled to the V-lever on the cyl.head cover.For the correct length of this lever check the manual ...Then one adjusts the length of the idle control knob cable,so that there`s a minimun distace before rpm correction takes place...check the .pdf`s below....
So 1.the horisontal lever should be free of tension when connected(the idle screw should rest against the throttle duct)2.the vertical should be a bit shorter (raised a bit to be connected)3.there has to be enough calble length for the idle knob adjuster-all these at the same time.
The second flap is to hinder the engine rotating backwards-cold happen sometimes at given circimstances.Should move freely,yes.

http://mb.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Engine/615/07-110.pdf

http://mb.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Engine/615/07-200.pdf

http://mb.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Engine/615/07-100.pdf

Good luck!

I don't know if this is a possibility, but the first time I installed an IP on a 617 engine I remember reading a warning in a manual that said some IP's were produced with the mark that you align the splined shaft tooth with on the pump was in the wrong place, it cautioned to make sure the mark was adjacent to one of the screws, if I recall correctly. Is it possible that your IP is mismarked? Just a thought.

I remember an MB mechanic/friend saying something about that but dont remember any of the particulars, might be worth looking into.

Thanks for the replies, and thanks VOX for the narrative

I set the motor at 24 Degrees and pulled the IP. The timing mark was right in the middle of the wider splined area. So I knew the timing was close, if not right on. I cleaned the IP, re-installed and redid the drip test and got the same 13 deg BTDC. I moved the pump closer to the block until I got the 1 drip for about 10 seconds. This is pretty close, because like some said, merely tightening the fasteners will change it ever so slightly. I am blown away how much I had to move my IP. The hard injector lines while hooked up to the injectors are now over shooting the IP by about 3/4 of an inch and will need to rebend to fit.

I also found 2 pretty large cracks in the vac line feeding the brake booster. I moved it to much and it broke in half. Pretty brittle.

On the drivers side, rear of the IP, there is a cable attached to it coming from inside the cab. This is pretty sloppy and the hole in the end of the shaft pin is gone and the previous owner jerry rigged something up. How do I make sure this is adjusted properly?

THANKS!!

Delta,sorry for the delay,must have missed the thread...
Below are some pics of cable adjustment procedures.In addition,if the adj. seems to be problematical(start and stop positions cannot be adjusted per spec),the manual suggests to "sacrifice a small amount of staring delivery in favor of a properly adjusted stop position"
In op conditions however,the prescribed distance should be attained by any means.(fig.F)-IP lever free of tension.
The 3 rubber buffers are ridiculously expensive....

on-dash idle adjust knob
 

How is the on-dash idle adjust control related to ip ? I have two 240D and the on-dash knob does nothing on either car. I do not mean to hyjack this thread.

He has an earlier 240D, you have W123, yes? On yours the cable is likely broken or out of adjustment at the IP where it adjusts the idle. The entire thing can be replaced if broken.