Are Hybrids Dead? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

awsrock · #16 12-23-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbenz

Hybrids easily exceed 45mpg at highway speeds (>70mph). No other car is going to do that except a jetta diesel. Yes, earlier cars like crx's and geo metros could do this but they were tin can cars.

The only hybrids that do that are tin can cars...Prius, Civic if it's lucky, and Insight. That's all there is right now.

The older Jetta still wins it with 49 hwy.

In the meantime, my vote is on scrapping the EPA regs that are keeping euro diesels out of the states...
Ditch the emissions junk and just push for biodeisel; same results, better running engines.

Dee8go · #17 12-23-2008, 03:33 PM

It would be cool if somebody here would build a diesel hybrid as you described above. I know that the ingenuity and know how is here. I wonder what it would cost? What kind of mileage do you think it would get? What are the specific problems that could make it unsuccessful?

connerm · #18 12-23-2008, 03:52 PM

I think that they will end up like those amphibious cars from the 50s and 60s.

Dee8go · #19 12-23-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm assuming there is some serious obstacle to doing this or else we'd see these cars for sale now. But maybe not.

1981_300sd · #20 12-23-2008, 05:11 PM

How many horsepower are the pancake Subaru engines? One of those would be enough to power the whole car (via electricity)?

Actros617 · #21 12-23-2008, 05:27 PM

GAS Hybird is a JOKE, your buying a car that is small and 2X the cost of it, can some make a DIESEL HYBIRD its far more efficient, lower maintenance and Far better gas mileage and more power so you can buy a car that is decent in size for the price...

Better yet why not some one make a car that runs like diesel locomotive,have a small diesel engine power up a big generator and use 2 BIG electric motor to power the car if i recall I think Volvo has done that before...

rwthomas1 · #22 12-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Hybrids are not dead. I expect them to be around for quite a while. They are a decent solution to some of our problems but they are not THE solution. Hybrids make a great city/stop-n-go commuter car. Why run the engine when you don't need to? Sitting there in traffic nobody needs to idle an engine. Plug in hybrids make even more sense in this case.

AFAIK, most hybrids get approx 45mpg on highway. Not too bad but a TDI seems do better and do it at higher speeds.

When a Camry hybrid breaks 45mpg let me know.

The larger the vehicle the better suited it is to diesel power.

The reason you don't see diesel hybrids is simple. Cost. Diesel engines are expensive, hybrid technology is expensive. The cost doesn't outweigh the benefits. Yet.

The diesel locomotives you are speaking of are not hybrids either. The same diesel-electric propulsion systems are common in commercial marine applications as well. They don't work well in passenger vehicles for two reasons. Their efficiency is due to the ability to run the power system at an optimum setting based on load. Locomotives and tug boats don't stop and start at traffic lights. They pull, very hard, for hours and sometimes days on end at the same power setting. That is what allows them to be so efficient. The second reason again is cost.

RT

Dee8go · #23 12-23-2008, 05:39 PM

I knew there had to be a reason . . . .

rrgrassi · #24 12-23-2008, 05:43 PM

The TRE, Metrolink, and others that use the Bombardier bi-level cars are a push-pull setup that uses a conventional diesel electric, and does have to stop and start at the different stations, albeit the runs are longer than a city block. IIRC, the TRE uses either a GP-50 or GP-60.

RW is correct in the amount of hours run and pulling.

rwthomas1 · #25 12-23-2008, 06:24 PM

It would also seem that a diesel-electric system is easier to engineer than a diesel-mechanical transmission setup. Consider trying to harness 6000hp mechanically and feed it to multiple drive axles, with multiple forward and reverse gears. A very large alternator tied directly to a huge diesel and switched through very large speed controls to electric motors at each axle sounds easier. Same goes for a tugboat or those super-huge mining trucks. RT

yellowbenz · #26 12-23-2008, 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=awsrock;2058034]The only hybrids that do that are tin can cars...Prius, Civic if it's lucky, and Insight. That's all there is right now.

You've got to be kidding. Have you ever ridden in a first gen CRX or rabbit diesel? There is no comparison.

Bio300TDTdriver · #27 12-23-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Diesel + Hybrid. Why can't anyone figure out they can be combined and that the technology has been around since the 1950's? If it can be done with a 6000hp locomotive, a 100hp car should be a snap.

Hey Forced welcome back.

Honda has the technology to do it, but they say the costs are too high. I keep telling them that I will buy one, but that doesn't seem to motivate them.

Bio300TDTdriver · #28 12-23-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbenz

I love diesels, but seriously the antihybrid attitudes defy logic. Hybrids easily exceed 45mpg at highway speeds (>70mph). No other car is going to do that except a jetta diesel. Yes, earlier cars like crx's and geo metros could do this but they were tin can cars. Small cars just don't get the mileage they should because the safety requirements make them too damn heavy. A necessary tradeoff because your life is certainly worth more than a few more MPG in my opinion. The safety features and interior dimensions of the prius and civic dwarf those other models. The prius is just as big on the inside as a camry and in fact has more leg room in the back than a camry. Ford's new midsized hybrid (fusion) is going to get over 40mpg on the highway.

Ultimately it's just an individual choice. If VW made more dependable cars and had a dealer network more accessible here in flyover land, I'd have bought one in a heartbeat. We don't have those HOV lanes, but you'll see a prius or hybrid civic everywhere. Most are driven by middle age or elderly folks, not some stereotypical "green" person. Sorry about the rant.

I think what you said is right on the mark.

My wife wanted a hybrid so we got one. You know, happy wife happy life.
Most of her friends drive minivans that get 15-16 mpg, while she gets 47 mpg. We may never break even on the extra cost in dollars, but there are other costs that matter as much to us.

We can start drilling everywhere Sarah Palin (remember her) wants us too. The reality is we run out of oil some day. It may not be in my life time, but certainly could happen in my kids lifetime. Then we need some alternatives. Hybrids may not be the answer, but we need to start somewhere.

You don't see Honda and Toyota needing a bailout to stay in business. They must be doing something right.

Bio300TDTdriver · #29 12-23-2008, 07:22 PM

[QUOTE=yellowbenz;2058238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by awsrock

The only hybrids that do that are tin can cars...Prius, Civic if it's lucky, and Insight. That's all there is right now.

You've got to be kidding. Have you ever ridden in a first gen CRX or rabbit diesel? There is no comparison.

He's either kidding or perhaps has an exhaust leak into the cabin of his car.

MBNRA · #30 12-23-2008, 08:10 PM

I've never been crazy about hybrids! I rented a Toyota Prius and it felt like a tin can stuffed with foam to keep it quiet. There was stick on velcro everywhere to keep it from rattling, glove box doors, cup holders, center console, etc.......

It still uses gasoline! I like my Mercedes Benz because it burns Biodiesel well and I don't have to send my money into the middle east so some out to lunch towelhead can blow something up with it!