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  #31  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
A stock 617 turbo would do alright in the big pickup with the right gears. As long as you don't expect to pull a fifteen thousand pound trailer and run 80 mph doing it you would be fine.

I imagine it would be at least as spunky as a 240d....better put a stick behind it!
...and better make it at LEAST a 6 speed to have a seriously low 1st gear to get the weight rolling from a dead stop, and a pretty decent overdrive ratio in 6th gear to be able to cruise at 65...
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:51 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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yep.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:57 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
Sorry but both of those links are about newer OM60x engines. They are completely different from the OM61x engines. The OM603/606 are well known to handle 300-400hp with stock internals and 500-600hp with upgraded internals, the OM617 isn't.

Quote:
I have done it and there is no changing that fact.
Except that you haven't provided anything to prove you have.

If I can post pictures and dyno sessions to document my work, there isn't a reason you can't. 3 dyno runs cost about $65 at most performance shops. If you've got the budget to build a 30+psi engine, mount a big cummins intercooler and brag about it, $65 should be peanuts. The dyno shop can e-mail you a copy of your chart or put it on photobucket so you don't need a scanner or camera.

Here is my most recent dyno chart. Only one person in the USA has posted a dyno run of an OM617 that tops these numbers, and he uses a Myna pump.
EDIT: This chart was from BEFORE I removed my rack limiter. I can still do another dyno run and post numbers about 25% higher.
Attached Thumbnails
617 Turbo engine  into '92 Ford 350 possible ?-k26vsgt22sa.jpg  

Last edited by ForcedInduction; 01-13-2009 at 06:11 AM.
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
I have been offered a cheap 460ci powered 1992 Ford 350 Crew Cab Dually 2WD.

I have sitting in the shop, a 1985 617 engine and transmission assembly.

Being as the 460 sucks gas at an alarming rate....what do you think of the proposed swap?

I shall be rebuilding the 617 engine and increasing the power to around 150HP.
Yes.... No.....Maybe..... Don't be stupid......Reasons why not.

Any suggestions or ideas welcome.


.
Why waste a good engine?
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:52 AM
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I vote for a DT466 or DT360

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
I have been offered a cheap 460ci powered 1992 Ford 350 Crew Cab Dually 2WD.

I have sitting in the shop, a 1985 617 engine and transmission assembly.

Being as the 460 sucks gas at an alarming rate....what do you think of the proposed swap?

I shall be rebuilding the 617 engine and increasing the power to around 150HP.
Yes.... No.....Maybe..... Don't be stupid......Reasons why not.

Any suggestions or ideas welcome.


.
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:16 AM
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All debate about HP potential aside, I would keep the engine completely stock for durability reasons since it's going to be quite busy moving that truck around. In fact you might even want to LOWER the max fueling to limit power.

I'll add some other perspective here:

My U404 weighs 6250#. That's roughly equivalent to the Fseries. It's engine is a de-rated M180 putting out a screaming 82 HP. The trucks top speed - balls out, is 60 MPH which, because of the overall gearing, comes out to be about 4300 RPM. Now, this truck is well designed and long lasting for it's intended purpose which is to spend 90% of it's life at 40 MPH or below.

If you want to apply this template to your truck, you're already ahead of the game with the 120HP or so that the OM617 produces plus the higher Diesel torque. You can set up the gears for a max speed of about 65 MPH at 4500 RPM.

What you'll end up with is a great truck for speeds of no more than 45 MPH for sustained periods that will also haul decent loads at lower speeds and has the ability to run up to 65 MPH or so for a quick ten minute trip up the highway now and then. Acceleration will be leisurely but still better then the U404.

If that's the life you envision for this truck, by all means go for it...
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:25 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarTek View Post
All debate about HP potential aside, I would keep the engine completely stock for durability reasons since it's going to be quite busy moving that truck around. In fact you might even want to LOWER the max fueling to limit power.

I'll add some other perspective here:

My U404 weighs 6250#. That's roughly equivalent to the Fseries. It's engine is a de-rated M180 putting out a screaming 82 HP. The trucks top speed - balls out, is 60 MPH which, because of the overall gearing, comes out to be about 4300 RPM. Now, this truck is well designed and long lasting for it's intended purpose which is to spend 90% of it's life at 40 MPH or below.

If you want to apply this template to your truck, you're already ahead of the game with the 120HP or so that the OM617 produces plus the higher Diesel torque. You can set up the gears for a max speed of about 65 MPH at 4500 RPM.

What you'll end up with is a great truck for speeds of no more than 45 MPH for sustained periods that will also haul decent loads at lower speeds and has the ability to run up to 65 MPH or so for a quick ten minute trip up the highway now and then. Acceleration will be leisurely but still better then the U404.

If that's the life you envision for this truck, by all means go for it...
I think your estimates are a little pessemistic.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #38  
Old 01-17-2009, 02:19 PM
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I don't. There's a reason the F350 comes with a 7+ Liter Diesel, not a 3 liter.
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  #39  
Old 01-17-2009, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgkast View Post
I don't. There's a reason the F350 comes with a 7+ Liter Diesel, not a 3 liter.
But the mercedes vans have a 3 liter and do just fine. Americans are spoiled into thinking you have to have 600 ft lb of torque to tow with....which is true if you are pulling 15K #.

Heck in Europe I saw a vw beetle towing a sixteen foot travel trailer!
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual. It still needs upholstery redone...I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2009, 02:38 PM
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Yeah but the CDI diesel in those things puts out like 250hp and 400 pounds of torque...thats like 2 617's and than some.
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  #41  
Old 01-18-2009, 07:11 PM
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the cdi benz vans that dodge has also only have 157hp
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  #42  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkveuro View Post
But...on the other hand:

project "GM Benz" has begun...
.
Hi, I'm the above mentioned guy.

The whole cost/benefit analysis thing has to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm doing my swap because I that's what I want to do, cost be damned. If I were after value, I would just buy a used diesel pickup. But that's not what I want -- I want the experience of doing this swap. My eventual goal is to have touched every bolt on my truck. Most people take the opposite attitude towards their car.

But bottom line is, if someone handed me a brand new dodge 3500 with a cummins already in it, I would sell it and use the funds to start another swap

If I had to take a rough guess at matching engines to trucks, I would go with this:

1/2 ton pickup: mercedes OM617
3/4 ton pickup: cummins 4BT
full ton dually: cummins 6BT

In fact, I had originally intended on doing a 4BT swap, but the more I read about it the more I realized that engine is just too heavy for a 1/2 ton pickup (and I found a cheap mercedes).
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  #43  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobetta View Post
Sure its possible, but why?
put a cummins B series in there.

6b for mad power or a 4b for fuel efficiency. some peeps w/ a similar truck+ 4b are claiming near 30 MPG's.

putting a 7.3 in is not going to be any easier.

checkout http://www.4btswaps.com, there are some knowledgeable peeps over there.

for that 617- look into something like a older 1/2 ton PU or a jeep cherokee- something that had an I6 in it to start with would be an easy one. I have really been leaning towards an older cherokee swap my self, just no time or capital at this point.
X2 I saw an F-350 with one this week. When the original engine died the owner stuck a Cummins in it. He was a retired mechanic.
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2009, 05:48 PM
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Not nearly enough motor for that truck. Even the early ATS IDI turbos and the early PSD are pretty lame in those rigs.

http://fordcummins.com/ is the only swap I'd consider in place of the 385-series (460 for you guys not in the know) in there now.
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  #45  
Old 02-03-2009, 03:04 PM
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I used to have an 88 naturally aspirated 7.3 diesel pick up, I now have the direct injected turbo 97 model - there is no comparison between the two.

The 617 would really be a dog in a vehicle this heavy. Since the IH diesels are pretty common and everything is a bolt in - that seems like the more sensible choice.
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