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  #16  
Old 01-27-2009, 12:46 AM
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I am all for saving fuel, but a 20% mix of biodiesel will do wonders and it doesn't require the cost associated with California standards! We had skies like those here in Phoenix and the 20% mix of biodiesel in our fuels resulted in a reduction of 46% in smog and emissions. Our buses are powered by Natural gas and LNG is available in many places. The biggest difference between the U.S. and other countries is that our politicians who know little about engineering are making the decisions instead of those who engineer machinery for a living. This is most evident in Europe where Diesel Vehicles being so widely available and the preffered method of transportation have resulted in a 30% reduction of fuel consumption!

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  #17  
Old 01-27-2009, 12:46 AM
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[QUOTE=Biodiesel300TD;2091459]Do you know where all our oil comes from?

Yeah, it looks like half of the top-5 oil importers are in North America! Middle eastern oil accounts for less than 1/4 of our imported oil.

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According to www.eia.doe.gov(Energy Information Administration) the US currently imports 58.3% of our oil.
That means 1/4 of our oil comes from NA and about 1/8 comes from the Middle East and Africa.

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This is because of people driving. We've built a country around being able to drive to where you need. We can't change that, but what we can change is what is comming out of the tail pipes of our cars.
...
So don't tell me we can't obtain better milage. Better milages means less fuel burned, which means less emissions.
So......American oil is somehow cleaner than foreign oil and will magically make our cars get 50MPG?
That makes no sense whatsoever and just makes the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument look even more

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Originally Posted by MBNRA View Post
but a 20% mix of biodiesel will do wonders and it doesn't require the cost associated with California standards!
Nope. Current production methods are expensive and inefficient. Until a process of making algae-based biodiesel is perfected, biodiesel won't be the magic bullet you think it would be. Cummins is currently the only manufacturer allowing more than B10 in their engines. The majority disallow anything higher than B5.
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  #18  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:27 AM
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[QUOTE=ForcedInduction;2091482]
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Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post
Do you know where all our oil comes from?

Yeah, it looks like half of the top-5 oil importers are in North America! Middle eastern oil accounts for less than 1/4 of our imported oil.
So you didn't know where our oil imports came from, but yet you say that people that make the statement that we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil don't know where our oil comes from. Hmm.
Just to clarify, only one of the top 5 oil importers are in North America, but they send us 1/2 of our total imported oil.

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So......American oil is somehow cleaner than foreign oil and will magically make our cars get 50MPG?
That makes no sense whatsoever and just makes the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument look even more
Where did you get that argument. I never stated that, or anything like it. I said that suppling ourselves with oil reduces our worry about national security, we're not relying on someone else to power our country. And that that it would support the US economy and create jobs here. And that the US has some of the lowest milage standards in the world.


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Nope. Current production methods are expensive and inefficient. Until a process of making algae-based biodiesel is perfected, biodiesel won't be the magic bullet you think it would be. Cummins is currently the only manufacturer allowing more than B10 in their engines. The majority disallow anything higher than B5.
Forced, I think we found something we agree on Biodiesel is not a cure all. It is a step in the right direction. But current production will never supply all the diesel the US uses.
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  #19  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post

Ever been to Houston, LA, or Mexico City.
So THAT'S what our skyline looks like! Been here all my life and I've never been able to make it out.
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  #20  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD View Post
So you didn't know where our oil imports came from, but yet you say that people that make the statement that we need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil don't know where our oil comes from.
Incorrect again. I've known for years where our oil comes from, thats why I know the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument is so ridiculous. Its the sheep factor perpetuating that argument.

The majority of Americans think we get most of our oil from the middle east (remember that public education point?). People automatically associate "Bin Laden, Iraq, Iran, WMD, 9/11, Saddam, bad, evil" with the middle east. So naturally to them, foreign oil = EVIL. They are usually the same people that give no second thought to buying things made in China.

Quote:
Just to clarify, only one of the top 5 oil importers are in North America
Last I checked, Canada and Mexico are part of the North American continent. 1+1=1?

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Where did you get that argument?
You made no transition from the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument to anything else.
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Incorrect again. I've known for years where our oil comes from, thats why I know the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument is so ridiculous. Its the sheep factor perpetuating that argument.

The majority of Americans think we get most of our oil from the middle east (remember that public education point?). People automatically associate "Bin Laden, Iraq, Iran, WMD, 9/11, Saddam, bad, evil" with the middle east. So naturally to them, foreign oil = EVIL. They are usually the same people that give no second thought to buying things made in China.


Last I checked, Canada and Mexico are part of the North American continent. 1+1=1?



You made no transition from the "reduce our dependency on foreign oil" argument to anything else.
Lance

You do realize that even though they are in North America, Canada and Mexico are foreign countries, right?
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bio300TDTdriver View Post
You do realize that even though they are in North America, Canada and Mexico are foreign countries, right?
Thats exactly why foreign oil is not bad.
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Thats exactly why foreign oil is not bad.
OK, we have that covered. You realize we have to import over 50% of our oil, but it is OK, because it is imported locally? We still have to export the $$ for the oil.

You also must realize that we use a disproportionate amount of the worlds oil.
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:39 AM
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You also must realize that we use a disproportionate amount of the worlds oil.
So? Sell your car and get a bicycle if its that big of a concern to you.
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:59 AM
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Here are our top 10 oil importers. (1,000 bbl per day)

CANADA 2,028
SAUDI ARABIA 1,461
MEXICO 1,296
VENEZUELA 1,071
NIGERIA 775
IRAQ 452 577
ANGOLA 438
ALGERIA 381
BRAZIL 280
KUWAIT 272
ECUADOR 214
COLOMBIA 157
RUSSIA 152
UNITED KINGDOM 117
EQUATORIAL GUINEA 114

There aren't that many North American countries in that list.

For the last year I can get data, 2007, we imported 58% of the oil we consumed.
49% of the imported oil came from the western hemisphere.
16% came from the Persian Gulf.
21% from Africa
14% Other
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2009, 09:17 AM
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North and South America really makes no difference. The fact still remains that only 1/8 of our imported oil actually comes from the middle east.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
How actually "clean" are these engines when it takes $5000 worth of exhaust treatment devices, rare metals, billions of dollars in testing, increased fuel consumption, shorter engine lifespan, increased maintenance/repair costs, pollution from making/disposing of those NOxcats/DPFs and all that only make the exhaust LOOK clean?

The engines themselves are as dirty as ever. Because of very short time frames and retardedly strict emissions limits set by politicians, builders are forced to focus on making the exhaust out the tailpipe look cleaner rather than taking the time needed designing technology to make the engine cleaner.

Cleaner exhaust is good, but not at the extreme cost politicians have caused.
Man, you really hit the nail on the head for this. I, too, find it to be ridiculous that they need to make engines LESS efficient in order to appear "more" efficient.

Why do many manuafacturers limit the % of biodiesel that can be run?

The only country that I think really matters in terms of buying oil from is Saudi Arabia...but they don't "hate" us, hell, they love us! But since we help prop up their joke of a government, we become part of the problem with the so-called "extremists." They hate the Saudis, and we just happen to be the hand that feeds them.
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2009, 01:55 PM
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A lot of nonsense from the naysayers in this thread. Today's engines are much MORE efficient, cleaner, and durable than those of the past. And the emission limits are negotiated with the industry. No emission limits that were impossible to attain have ever been enacted. And importing oil is bad no matter where it comes from because it increases our trade deficit and makes us dependent on the mercy of other countries.
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Today's engines are much MORE efficient, cleaner, and durable than those of the past.
Yes cars are cleaner and more efficient, but my 1978 240D gets better milage than the national standard for the US. My 1979 toyota pickup got 20mpg. Curreny Toyota pickups get maybe a few mpg better. Common we can do better than this. There was no such thing as the internet 15 years ago. And look at it now. Mercedes had a diesel in the 40's the 170D that got 40 mpg. We've come a long way since then and a vast majority of cars in the US dont' get even close to that.


Lance, you never answered my question about what your health is worth to you.
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  #30  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
A lot of nonsense from the naysayers in this thread. Today's engines are much MORE efficient, cleaner, and durable than those of the past. And the emission limits are negotiated with the industry. No emission limits that were impossible to attain have ever been enacted. And importing oil is bad no matter where it comes from because it increases our trade deficit and makes us dependent on the mercy of other countries.
This article would disagree with you.

Title: Detroit Calls Emissions Proposals Too Strict
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/business/27fuel.html?_r=1&ref=science

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