You have to look at the big picture. Those old cars that seem to be more efficient are tin cans with little to no safety by today's standards. Put those old engines in the new chassis and I guarantee you your mileage and power will be less than with the new engine, and they'll spew a lot more filth in the air too.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

That's just whining. I never said they didn't whine. That's part of the negotiation process.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Great negotiation process when one side says it will kill our industry and the other side says "stop whining."


The California regulations, if enacted today, “would basically kill the industry,” said David E. Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, an independent research organization in Ann Arbor, Mich. “It would have a devastating effect on everybody, and not just the domestics.”

As of right now, every manufacturer would be affected (not just detroit).

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Grey '91 350SDL 214k Dad's car
Beige '81 240D 4 Speed 254k SOLD
Blue '82 300D 225k SOLD
White '95 E300D 46k SOLD
Blue '87 190D 2.5 Turbo 315k SOLD
Brown '80 240D 4 Speed 716k SOLD
Beige '80 300D N/A 119k SOLD
Blue '85 300D Model 186k T-Boned

This is ture, although another factor that is inhibiting ..not so much efficiency, but economy, is America's obsession with more horsepower and 0-60 times.

I mean come on, I read an article on the C220 cdi and they said that the 2.2 ONLY had 170hp???

While more power is always fun to have, most carmakers, while increasing the efficiency of the engine, are also increasing the power which leaves the fuel economy at the same level, sometimes even worse!

Plus, who regularly does WOT 0-60 runs?

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Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

I have. And I agree. While new cars absorb the impact and look horrible after even a small crash, the old cars can make it through some pretty big crashes and still look fine, but what aborbs the impact is you.
My next question is what kind of milage does your TDI get? I bet it's way more than the US standard 26mpg. It has all the safety features, does it not? You'd be pretty hard pressed to find a US made car that gets that kind of milage.
The technology is out there, but the US automakers don't want to change, and now they are feeling the crunch because of it. They even had the technology on the road but chose to crush every last one of them. General Motors created the EV1 and had several of them on the road in California. For what ever reason they only leased the cars, you couldn't buy one outright. When the leases were up they took them back. And the people that refused to give them back got the car repoed and the were treated as theives. GM eventually crushed all but 1, which is in a museum and has been defunct so it can't drive. I hope GM is kicking themselves now.

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I hope not, even though California is harsh with its emission standards

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2007 BMW 328XI

If I recall, I heard somewhere that LA is smoggy because of the atmosphere type that it has. Something about it being close to the ocean and the atmosphere hold everything in, until it rains or something similar. Once it rains it clears up again by releasing everything it was holding. This is just something I recall hearing, i'll try and find me info on it to back it up lol

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2007 BMW 328XI

The problem with that fear-mongering is that the industry, especially the Big 3 have been doing that for as long as I remember, but in the end they always find a way to meet those emission targets, and if it's not them someone else will. Nobody said it's an easy business, but the idea is to keep pushing what's technologically possible.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

When I said "efficiency" I meant just that, and not necessarily fuel economy. Basically efficiency is how much power you can extract out of a drop of fuel. The more you can extract the more power and/or mileage you can get out of it. In that sense, efficiency has definitely improved over the years, especially when factoring in all the safety features that nowadays come standard and make vehicles heavier.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Yup the Big 3 are inefficient and pretty clueless.

As to my TDI, I get low to mid 40's. The older ones got even more but they had less power and higher emissions.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I can tell you that the emission system on the Dodge pickups with the 2007.5+ 6.7L Cummins is an utter failure. Talk to any service manager at a Chrysler dealer if you don't believe. Increases fuel cosumption by 20% and has serious reliability problems.

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1986 300 SDL - rolling parts car and test bed.
1987 300 SDL - semi daily driver.
1977 U1000 Unimog
2007 Ram 2500 6.7l

The proximity of mountains, coupled with a sea breeze during the day, traps smog over LA that would otherwise have been dispersed eatward.
During the night, it changes over to a land breeze and sends all that junk out over the ocean.

I suppose it is a similar situation in Houston, although you don't have any mountain ranges holding the smog in. Hmm

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Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

You think that's bad, talk to someone with a new PowerJoke.

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1987 300TD 309, xxx 2.8.2014 10,000 mile OCI


Be careful of the toes you step on today, as they may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. anonymous

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter won’t mind.” Dr. Seuss

Until ALL the car manufacturers quit with the never ending race for higher horsepower every year, we're going nowhere. I had a '81 Rabbit diesel-(wish I still had it!) through college and there was nothing better than getting 40 mpg around town and 50+ on the highway. With fuel costs as low as that, I had more spare beer money than anybody!! Granted, at 52 horsepower it was a slug but was by far the most economical car I've ever owned, and it was a good solid, well riding and handling German car. I think the most recent Jetta TDI with the latest beefed up engine has comparatively pathetic EPA ratings of like 30 city and 38 highway. disgraceful!

If only MB would let the US market have some of the "economical" stripped down versions the rest of the world is allowed to get- put some SMALL engines in!!! like an E200 turbodiesel or a C180 turbodiesel with manual trannies- bet they would get 40+mpg. We unfortunately won't get cars like this as "Mercedes has an image to uphold" and these cars would have a lower profit margin and will "cheapen" the US impression of the brand. BULL....!

There are changes that are already there and waiting to happen...When and Who will have the balls to actually do something as simple as this??

J.G.