No, it's not the NSS. Did try that.
When I get it back home I am going to try switching batteries
with the one from the FL car to see if it's the battery.

I have to think that it's either the ignition or the battery. Maybe starter
solenoid, but it would be last on my list.

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Ginny in Denver-ish
78 300SD, 265K (mine)

I had a similar problem, with my SD, would need a jump when cold.
I checked the alt and battery, both fine. I replaced the starter, problem solved. That was two years ago, still have the same battery.

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83 SD

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Can someone show a pic of the starter solenoid?
I am leaning toward the starter or solenoid.

Is there a way to test the starter without taking off the car?
Thanks!

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Ginny in Denver-ish
78 300SD, 265K (mine)

I would think the solenoid is one with the starter. Unlike some other cars, it's in the housing. BUT NOT SURE. The computer is not opening the FSM right now.
I don't know if there is a way to test the starter.

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I would check the ground to the engine block. I has the ame type problem on my 81. Sometimes it started other times acted like there was little juice from the battery. Turns out there was not ground strap back bythe tranny. I checked from battery negative post to the engine bloak w/ a multi meter and it showed 300 Ohms- should be 1 ohm or less. A quick temp fix was to attach jumper cable from battery negative post to a spot on the engine block.

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81 300D Turbo 190K sold
83 300sd 319K best $500 I ever spent-daily driverw/ 2 tank WVO set up

Here is the starter- the solenoid is the smaller bump on top that the positive lead connects to..

http://catalog.peachparts.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1979-Mercedes--benz-300sd-Engine--Electrical&yearid=1979%40%401979&makeid=63%40%40MERCEDES-BENZ%40%4063%40%40MERCEDES-BENZ%40%40X&modelid=6203%40%40300SD&catid=240798%40%40Engine+Electrical&subcatid=240894@@Starter&mode=PA

I don't know if it can be tested on the car. Just need to clean all the possible terminals then whack the soleniod when you are trying to start it and see if it helps. Very hard to get a turbo starter off the car....

Rick

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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

Don't know if the 81 SD has a junction box like many 123's where a person can jump the screws to activate the starter, bypassing a lot of the wiring. If it does, I would definitely try doing that before digging into the starter because on 123's it's often a problem in the wiring or ignition switch and jumping the wires can confirm the starter is ok.
Jumping the posts on the solenoid will do the same thing but they are usually difficult to access.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

There is too much noise to be able to hear the machine tell you what is wrong. The battery is either good or bad, and if it is good but merely discharged, there is a reason for that that must be uncovered and corrected. The problem can be shorts or it can be a weak alternator. And, it is possible the starter is the whole problem.

The list of things to attack is:

Electrical connections - at the battery (remove, clean, reinstall), at the ground connection to the frame from the battery (remove, clean, reinstall), at the engine to frame ground behind the starter (remove, clean, reinstall), at the starter (there are several - small and large - connections, remove them with the battery positive terminal disconnected or you will weld your wrench to the frame and likely smoke the battery and wires - they should all be removed, cleaned and reinstalled), power connections to the light switch and key (examine a schematic, but you will find the fuse box is powered by connections to either the light switch or the key), and give the fuses in the fuse box a going over, including twisting them around in their connections - I rotate them 360 degrees periodically.

Battery - take it out and have it load tested. This checks its ability to take a charge and to deliver power to a load. If the battery tests out good, stop looking at the battery. The problem lies elsewhere. If the battery is bad, you have figure out why. One cause is a weak alternator that doesn't charge it up while driving, another is a short in the system that drains it constantly. A healthy battery should blow a fuse if there is a significant short, so the problem may be trickier to find.

If the alternator is weak, pull the brushes and examine them. Short, unevenly worn brushes with grooves on the wear surfaces are an indication of a more worn out alternator. Uneven wear can be a sign of bad diodes, grooves an indication that the commutation surface on the rotor is damaged, which is usually an indication the bearings are bad too. If the brushes are generally ok, just too short, replace them or the whole voltage regulator. Otherwise buy a Bosch rebuild (try Fastlane) or have yours rebuilt by someone who knows how.

If the starter is bad, replace it with a Bosch rebuild, or even a new one. Starters on Diesels get tortured and most rebuilds don't address insulation breakdown in the windings due to being repeatedly run for 30 seconds or more. These things are rated for intermittent duty and are relatively light weight for their rated output. So they heat up faster and long cranking sessions will degrade the insulation. Most rebuilds address bolt on components and most of those are actually mechanical.

Good luck. Jim

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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

I also lean toward the Gound strap on the battery-same issue with my 300D & 300SD.

Common problem with Merecedes is the cable connection that goes from the negative of the battery (-) to the frame of the car. Rust gets in and a poor connection is made

Follow the big thick cable that goes from the negative (-) of the battery to a bolt that connects to the frame of the car.

Unscrew the bolt that connects the batt neg cable to the frame of the car.

Get a peice of sandpaper:
-sand the the spot on the car the batt cable connects to
-sand the connection of the battery cable
-sand all washers,etc.

try to make all/any metal where the battery cable connects to -nice & shiney for a good connection.

odds are the car will now start and run fine

I don't think it's the battery or connections. The battery is new. The terminals would have been cleaned when installing the new battery.

The ground braid or cable MIGHT be loose. It goes from the frame to the bell housing or block.

You need a voltmeter. Check the battery before starting (~12.8 volts). When running and idling it may be ~13.0, but rev the engine a little and it should pick up to ~13.8 volts. If these are what you get, the battery is charging.

My bet is the starter is the problem.

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Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Parts car has a brand new neg cable. I'll snag that and replace on the 81 after a good cleaning to both cable and bolt, washers, etc.
Will report back.
Right now it's at the bar just being itself.

Thanks for all the ideas!
Ya'll rock!

Oh, and the parts car and 81 can trade starters.
Though Tom will have to remove the starter. . .that will be fun!

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Ginny in Denver-ish
78 300SD, 265K (mine)

I stand corrected on the "is one" comment.

I paid a mechanic to swap out the starter, as mentioned above, quite difficult on a turbo.

kerry, yes, a 126 has a junction box, albeit a bit different than a 123.

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Be sure to clean off the contacts on the solenoid first- I have these corrode often on mine. Pulling the starter off is torture- don't go there if you don't have to. In addition to getting the bolts free, there is only one position of the steering rack that will allow the starter to drop

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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)

Starter.
I finally got to take some time to figure out what the
problem is and it's the starter. Just a click on some tries
and slow turn overs on other tries.
So last night, in the dark with only headlights from the Yukon,
we put the battery on the Yukon and tried to start. Just
a click. So I got a long, 5 foot, metal tube we had at the bar
and started just tapping on the solenoid while tom tried starting
it. Little by little the thing started to turn.
Finally got it moving quick but just not quite quick enought to
start it.
A friend of mine came out to see how we were doing and he's
a mechanic. But not a diesel mech.
Listening to the whole thing he decided that we should try ether
to get it going. The engine sounded like it was about to start
before 'friend' came out and I think all the GPs are probably
bad or close to it. Or gunked up and can't heat the prechamber
very well. I ohm'd them and they CLAIM to be good.
Anyway, friend came out and sprizt a bit of ether and it stopped
wanting to start. Starter was probably hot bythen and needed
to rest so we decided to figure out what to do later, since it was
11PM.

So, it's the starter. NOW WHAT?

Oh, and how long or how many times would one have to crank
the engine for it to warm up enough to start without good GPs?
I figured that the number of times we tried starting, the engine
would get warm enough inside to start. Temp was about 35*.

Thanks!

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Ginny in Denver-ish
78 300SD, 265K (mine)

New/reman starter time. Do that first, you know you need one.
Yet you may want to check for carbon build up in the GP pre-chamber, use a reamer or appropriate drill bit.

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