For those of you concerned about the lubricity of modern diesel fuel, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever considered utilizing two-stroke oil mixed with their fuel? I know that the MBZ injection pumps are lubricated with engine oil, and this seems to be an area of controversy as to whether or not the "upper" areas of the injection system need additional lubrication above and beyond today's low sulfur fuels.

It would seem logical that two-stroke oil would be a great candidate due to its intended use -- to provide lubrication whilst being highly diluted with fuel. Also consider the fact that it is formulated with the intention of being burned inside the combustion chamber while leaving a minimum of deposits due to its propensity to limit ash formation.

Has anyone read anything concerning this, or has anyone ever tried using it? Just wondering... In the meantime I continue to swear by a mixture of Redline DFC plus some Power Services cetane booster. It seems as though the two of them have a great synergistic effect.

RTH

I've been using the Power Service stuff and it claims to increase the lubricative properties of the fuel so I stopped adding the 2 cycle oil. If you too are using fuel additives, I would imagine that you wouldn't need to add the oil. Couldn't though I guess. What's this about mixing the Power Service stuff and the DFC? At the NJ diesel meet, someone was nice enough to give me a bottle of the DFC which I have never tried before. How much of it do you think I should add to the Power Service? Thanks

Alex

__________________
1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

I don't really take a very scientific approach on this one -- if I'm adding a minimal amount of the DFC (diesel fuel catalyst), then I'll use a light dosage of the Power Services juice along with it. The DFC helps reduce smoke quite effectively, and the cetane boosting properties of the Power Services product helps the engine run a bit smoother (Unless of course this is all psychosomatic ). If I'm running a higher dose of the DFC, I will just use the DFC by itself.

Please note that despite other postings on this board, the Redline DFC is NOT the same thing as their 85+ product. The 85+ was formulated with the intention of use on vehicles equipped with trap oxidizers (although can be used on any diesel) and does not have the smoke suppression capabilities of the DFC. Conversely, the 85+ indicates on the label a slightly greater capacity to increase cetane levels on an ounce per ounce basis.

I'm curious as to your experience using two-stroke oil. Could you please give us some information as to the type/brand and mixture ratio that you have used; and also please tell us your observations as to its effect (if any) on performance and/or smoke levels, as well as injector noise/sound.

RTH

I didn't really add the 2 cycle oil using any kind of mathematical ratios. I poured it straight from the bottle and added whatever I felt like adding. Oh, and I didn't have any brand preference, I just bought whatever was on the shelf (it was Penzoil I think). Wasn't too much, I guess maybe two or three ounces. To tell you the truth, I didn't notice much difference. I just assumed it was doing something anyway. I'll start adding some again and pay more attention to the way my car performs.

With regards to the DFC and Powerservice. I add about 4 to 6 ounces of the PS stuff every fill up. If the DFC works well, I'll start buying 85+ in bulk quantities because my car doesn't smoke at all.

Try the oil yourself and see what you think. Won't harm your car. I'm pretty convinced that so many of the things we do for these cars produces results that are only psychological. OH well, I do them anyway.

Alex

__________________
1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

sounds like a good idea to me. I use 2 cycle oil when I start an engine that hasn't been run for awhile , a shot in each cylinder and a shot of gas mixed with 2 cycle oil if the engine has a carb...
William Rogers.....

Excellent idea.....the rationale for using this as a lubricity additive, based on the intended use as a lubricant additive to fuel, leaving minimal ash, makes perfect sense to me. I have been using a small dose (3-4 ounces) of non-detergent 30-weight oil (Coastal brand from Auto Zone) at each fueling. Assuming cost is similar, I will probably switch to 2-cycle oil.

RTH,

I was told this by two different people at Red Line, so I'm inclined to believe them. Apparently the only reason they continue to market both products is because of name recognition

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"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

I also began using DFC, based on discussions in this forum, and I have noticed a marked reduction in smoking.....quite amazing. This was very satisfying, not only because of the smoke reduction, but from the standpoint that at last there is something that us MB diesel owners can do to "pamper their baby" that actually does something beneficial for the car, and not just a psychological boost to the owner!!

Michael, I do not in any way mean to be argumentative, however I have literature from Redline which details every one of their products within their lineup. The base stocks for DFC and 85+ are the same, the only difference being the smoke suppression additive present in the DFC. I will concede however, that the information is approximate 2 or 3 years old; it is possible that within this time period they may have switched to bottling the same product with different labeling in order to avoid confusion as well as maintain an existing customer base. Conversely, I *have* used both products and my experience has shown that the DFC is definitely superior at reducing smoke levels during hard acceleration. (Oops, did I just say acceleration in reference to a diesel? Perhaps I should restate that as “gathering momentum”. )

By the way, off the subject.... I just bought an absolutely beautiful 94 E430 today for my father -- it is a really sweet car. I can only imagine how this thing would run with the rear axle ratio that you have in your 500E, even without the additional torque and horsepower. (In other words, I want your car!)

RTH

RTH,
I was told by my service rep at the MB dealership to use a quart of ATF in the tank with each fill up with diesel fuel. I started this recently in my 300D and will keep an eye on how it runs. There has been discussion regarding this in the past. Many opinions pro and con.

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Richard Seaman
1982 300D Turbo 198k
1987 420SEL Sold
1993 400SEL 123k
MBCA Desert Stars

Hey all! We had a long discussion about using 2-cycle oil in the fuel tank on the VW diesel group about a year ago. (great bunch of guys and gals too!) We used different amounts of oil in each fillup and monitered any changes. Also, we kept records of mileage and smoke. I believe that we all agreed that it makes the engine run smoother , cooler, and with a slight increase in mileage. (Keep in mind that you have to account for the added amount of oil too, otherwise you will get better mileage but it will be a false number do to adding the 8 ounces of oil) In a Mercedes this might not be as noticable but in a Rabbit or a Jetta this equals about 2.28 extra miles. I think we decided that optimum was between 6-8 oz. per 10 gallons. Also we concluded that ANY 2-stroke that had a TWC-3 ( I think that is the rating) was acceptable. Cheers! Tom

6-8 ounces? Doesn't that sound like an awful lot? I'll try it next time though........

Alex

__________________
1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside

Alex, you can experiment with varying amounts this is just where we found that it was reducing the smoke and improving mileage as well as the vehicle running quieter and cooler. I think at one point I tried using 2.5 ounces per fill-up but I can't remember if it was decreasing the (diesel rattle) that I'm so fond of. Just a small amount will make a difference between a "diesel" sound and making the car sound like a "gas" car in the Vw's. (valve adjustment will go a long ways here too) Currently, running biodiesel and adjusting my Rabbits valves to the "tight" side of the spec's it runs so quiet that folks have a hard time believing that it is a diesel. (timing is also set slightly to the "rich" end of the spectrum) I need SOME performance as I have to pull out onto the highway and into traffic many times each day with a rather heavy load in my car. (right around 600 times per day, from stop to go!) What we figure is that the 2-stroke oil aids also in lubricating the "upper" end of the engine. I.e. the valves and the injectors . This is what is thought to have the "quieting" effect. Tom

Sounds reasonable enough to me. Next full fill up I'll try adding the 6-8 that you suggest. Too bad the stuff is so damn expensive around here.

Alex

__________________
1983 300D (parked for four years)
2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
2001 Miata SE
1962 Chevrolet Corvair Rampside